another episode of Dirty fuel

[Liquid Asset]

Well,
After we were thinking that we were getting the fuel tanks clean, we fueled the boat again and realized that it is still dirty as can be. After this, I am willing to entertain some professional help with this repair. Someone told me about a company that brings out a polisher type device that injects the fuel at pressure with a vent hose that leads to a polishing system. Not sure if it will work. Do yall have any other suggestions? I am out of ideas, and I have been through over a case and a half of filters.

 

[micky]

The same thing happened to me yesterday on my Shamrock 5 filters in 2 hours. Thank God I only have 36 gallons of diesel. On friday I'm going to the boat to empty the tanks and filled them with new and clean diesel.

 

[Genesis]

You likely have a goodly quantity of crud in the bottom of the tanks.

Easiest fix is to remove the pickups and extend them all the way to the bottom of the tank, less perhaps 1/4-1/2" - just enough gap that the flexing of the tank surface doesn't cause the pickup to bottom out.

This is contrary to the "wisdom" of many - but my view on it is that I want the crap (and water!) in the filters where I can remove it, rather than floating around in the tank. If you do this you'll quickly end up with all the gunk where its accessible to you - in the filters.

If you're running into this kind of problem continually odds are there's water in the tank and you've got a microbial infestation. You have to get it out or you'll never solve the problem. Removing the plates on the top and extending the pickups will allow you to do that, or simply to stick in a long tube and suck it all out of there.

Polishing services can help, BUT they are limited in recreational vessels due to the baffling in the tanks - they just can't get to all of the surfaces. In commercial vessels there is typically a cleanout hatch over each baffled area, allowing access to the entire interior.

 

[CharlieJ]

Pat-
I have a very good fuel polishing guy...I trust him explicitly...he is in St. Pete. but will cross the bridge...call or email me if you want his number.
My email: cjohnson@jtbmarine.com
Phone: 727.560.9065

 

[Liquid Asset]

There is more to this issue then can be solved by polishing I think. Before we bought this boat, it sat for 18 months. When we bought it, it had fuel problems and we had the fuel polished untill it was clear. We then put about 10 hours on the boat and the fuel got dirty again. So they polished the fuel untill it was clean again.

After all of that in Panama City, we brought the boat home and it seemed like we were making success in the traping of the problem and the fuel filters were not cloging up quickly and then we bought fuel. Unfortunelty it seems that there is a lot of crud attached to the sides of the tank because after buying fuel we are back to cloging filters.

I am thinking there has to be some way to break down the stuff attached to the inside of the tanks before the polishing. Otherwise I think we are wasting time.

 

[Genesis]

Biodiesel. It has some other properties that can be trouble though.

It'll get the crap off, and fast. It will also play hell with your filters!

 

[Liquid Asset]

well, at this point if I can not get things to look better I will be willing to entertain those options.

 

[Avenger]

If you do have an algae problem there are biocides to kill the stuff. If you don't kill it it keeps coming back. When you do kill it it all breaks loose and clogs your filters until it's gone. I've had pretty good luck with Biobor JF and then polishing to remove the dead beasties.

Algae looks like a brown-black fluffy muck in your filters. Genesis is exactly right about not using your fuel tank as the primary filter. This is how you end up with water, and the stuff thrives on the interface between the fuel and water.

 

[Genesis]

Biocides will kill the microbes (its actually a bacteria - algae requires light to grow) BUT it will come right back unless you get the water out.

If you get the water out you will kill it and it will STAY gone, as the water is required for the gunk to grow.

Beware biocides. They work, but are halogen compounds and EXTREMELY corrosive to metals - the important ones in question are the tips of your injectors! Use it if you must, but when the problem is gone, STOP! Do NOT use maintenance doses of biocides - ever - unless you like buying injectors.

 

[CharlieJ]

The way to polish diesel fuel and to demuck the tanks is to have a minimum fuel load on board then gain as much access to the tanks as is possible...cut accesses if required. The fuel polisher than uses a high capacity pump to suck the fuel out of the tank, thru his filters and back into the tank at a substantial flow rate. He uses the wand of the return line like a power washer, knocking the crud and muck off of the tank surfaces.

The company I referred to in my previous post performs as described above...I have seen him turn down very lucrative jobs because he cannot gain sufficient access to perform a true fuel polishing.

The guy who shows up with a Racor 900 and a 10 gpm pump mounted on a dolly is not really polishing your fuel.


By now you know...There is no magic bullet for this problem...

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, the problem is that on most recreational vessels there is no access to the top of the tank necessary to cut the access panels, and the baffles make doing the job otherwise impossible.

Commercial vessels are designed with this in mind - recreational vessels are not.

 

[34Hatt]

There is a very easy solution get a bottle of AJX TCS it is a tank cleaning system that will break it down with out clogging your filters. Most people don't believe this but they are the one that never tried it. Also if you want even better results use the TCS with the TMS at the same time. There are a lot of fuel polishing guys out there in Fl that actually use it when they clean your tanks. Go to www.ajx.us or www.ajxne.com for the northeast dealers.

 

[saltshaker]

I have been dealing with some old fuel in one of my tanks. I used the AJK with fair results. It cleaned up the fuel a bit but not completely. It doesn't work on fuel aglomerations(sp?) which is typical of old fuel. It did alow me more time between filter changes. I now can drain the crap from the Racor bowls after running off this tank and the filters are still OK. I was able to run for around 5 hours straight with no smoke or loss of performance. I'll find out if all is fine when I fill that tank up in the next few weeks. Crud seems to be less and less, but as Karl said you need to remove any water in the tank or your problems will keep coming back. I too feel it is better to suck the junk out than to leave 5-10gls of crap on the bottom of the tank. I wish the tanks had a low spot with a drain to keep things clean. On my 46SF the boat needs to be bow up to clean out the aft tanks.

Jack Sardina

 

[Liquid Asset]

I think my problem is not alge, I think it is asphatine(sp?). I am going to use some adative, and then I am going to polish the fuel. I think I may have some alge too, but the filter look more gritty black than brown. In my truck when I get an alge outbreak, the racor diesel filter turns solid brown. Still new to this boats with diesels thing.

The one thing I have found throughout all of this is that I do not like the racor filters. They are a pain the the butt to change. I want to convert to something like Genesis did with the spin on filters except I want ot be able to change on the go like with the racors. I am going ot try to come up with something soon! I think it will be my first winter project when I can stand to work in the engine room for long hours.

 

[Genesis]

You can do what I did but do it in duplex (at double the cost) and be able to swap underway.

HOWEVER, think long and hard about that. I've yet to foul the FIRST set of filters - and I used to go through Racors like toilet paper. The setup that Tony sells is really the jazz - they hold an AMAZING amount of crud before fouling.

I should have done this four years ago when I bought the boat.

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: another episode of Dirty fuel/Biocides?

Some marinas here in Michigan sell a diesel fuel with a percent of name brand biocide contained in the fuel. Since they started selling it this way, I have no longer been adding the 1-1/5 oz of biocide to a 100-150 gals per tank.

Does the percent biocide in the fuel from the pump present an issue of corrosion, as noted above?

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: another episode of Dirty fuel/ Filters?

My second post, different question. I have a '72 43' MY with 6-71N's and standard fuel filtering.

I have been looking into installing the double Racors, that allow the filters to be switched out via valves, while running. Also, I would install water filters. But a tech has been suggesting fuel polishing, e.g. ESI, and stay with the standard filters.

Any configuration suggestions and history of effectiveness?

 

[Liquid Asset]

I would do both. Genesis has a filtering system that can polish the fuel as well as prime with the same pump. I have a priming system, but the pumps are not capable of pumping fuel in the way that Karls system does. I would look into the Walbro pumps, I have used them and they are very good.

You could design a system that could use the filters for polishing as well as have dual filters that can be switched out if necisary for changing or if you had a clog.

This way you can polish if you are not using the boat and can have the dual filters. It mostly depends on space. Since I have plenty of space in my engine room, I am going to do it this way. I am basically going to totally redesign my fuel system from the valves using some of Genesis and Tonys Ideas. If you go over to boatdiesel.com and read the article the Karl wrote and the older article about fuel systems you can learn alot.

Good Luck!

 

[Genesis]

Re: another episode of Dirty fuel/Biocides?

Some marinas here in Michigan sell a diesel fuel with a percent of name brand biocide contained in the fuel. Since they started selling it this way, I have no longer been adding the 1-1/5 oz of biocide to a 100-150 gals per tank.

Does the percent biocide in the fuel from the pump present an issue of corrosion, as noted above?

Depends on the biocide.

In general biocides are a WASTE OF MONEY. The reason you have bacterial growth in your fuel is that there is water in the tank. No water, no growth. Water is bad for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is that if you get a really BIG slug of it at once up the pickup and it manages to get past your filters the result will be a whole host of blown injector tips and possible cylinder damage.

If the biocide they're using is halide-based (most are) then it presents a corrosion issue and I would not use that fuel in my boat.

I prefer to treat the cause of the problem.

 

[Capt K]

I agree with Karl. When I bought my 1965 50' m.y. eleven years ago it had one "bad" tank that I fought for years via filters, additives, etc. Two winters ago I pulled the sending unit from the tank (aft one under hallway & guest stateroom) and put a pvc pipe hooked to a jabsco pump as far in as I could reach. I pumped out about 12 gallons of fuel/water/crud. Then I used the AJX system and the past two seasons have been great!

Get the stuff out, treat the tank, enjoy the ride!

K