Another electrical challenge

[Hatteras58]

The Admiral has been after me for several years to separate the galley outlets so that they are on two separate circuits. So, my electrician and I started tracing wires last weekend and ran into a situation we cannot understand. There is a single cable from the breaker on the AC panel which appears to be original. It runs somewhere, i.e. to some location where it then feeds three galley receptacles, each with a single pair of wires going into the box and no wires exiting. In other words, the outlets are not run in series. In order for this to work, the supply and the three feeds must come together 'somewhere', but again, we're clueless as to where that junction may be. We spent hours looking for a junction box! Anybody on the HOF encountered this situation?

 

[rustybucket]

Ok, first of all outlets are never ran in series, they would have been ran in parallel. I realize this is what you really meant, but wanted to make sure it was understood by everyone else.

Do you have a wiring diagram for you boat? That would be the first place I would turn.

If not, it does sound like there is a junction box(es) somewhere.

Are any other lights on that circuit? Maybe the receptacles are just droppers from the lights?

 

[Pascal]

Things may have improved between 1970 and 1977 but mine had a number of hidden connections scattered all over the boat. No boxes, just butt connectors and electrical tape. All clearly original to the boat and most in inaccessible locations like behind headliners, hidden in wire bundles or even one hidden in a hole in a floor beam!

For example the port and starboard shorepower wire were merged together along the gen room rear bulkhead using a split piece of copper pipe, crimped over the uninterrupted wire and wrapped in electrical tape and then hidden in a bundle or wires.

 

[oscarvan]

Things may have improved between 1970 and 1977 but mine had a number of hidden connections scattered all over the boat. No boxes, just butt connectors and electrical tape. All clearly original to the boat and most in inaccessible locations like behind headliners, hidden in wire bundles or even one hidden in a hole in a floor beam!

For example the port and starboard shorepower wire were merged together along the gen room rear bulkhead using a split piece of copper pipe, crimped over the uninterrupted wire and wrapped in electrical tape and then hidden in a bundle or wires.

Wow.....

To OP..... There are locators with audio to trace wires... not sure if they are sensitive enough to be of use if you're not on top of them....

The obvious solution is to cap one or two of the outlets and run a new circuit to them.... Not the most elegant but from Pascals description it's not exactly pristine to begin with.

 

[Hatteras58]

Thanks all for the input. Southpaws, thanks for correcting me. I have been trying for years to get the 'parallel' vs 'series' things straight and keep getting it wrong! Pascal, I think you may be right about the hidden splices. We think we traced the wire from the breaker to some where in the overhead of the generator room but couldn't accept the possibility that the connections were under the ceiling insulation. Might have to rethink that possibility.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I think you'll find terminal blocks all over (AC & DC). I'm betting your main cable terminated and was redistributed there. So, the answer to your problem might be to cap the wires at one receptacle and run one new line from your breaker of choice to that receptacle. Being in the galley, you'll need to change the receptacle to GFI or install one in-line somewhere. You'll ruin someone's day down the line if you fail to properly label the GFI location. Ask me how I know.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Maybe time for a wire tracer. Helped us on tracking down Hatt wire issues.
No, Hatt does not follow household wire practice. This old of a boat, May be close to ABYC but not to bet on.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Serial / Parallel ??

If the black wire is a single lead from the breaker and daisy chains from out to outlet to fixture to outlet,, it is serial.
If many black wires leaves the breaker, in a single wire connects to the out or fixture, it MAY BE CALLED parallel.

ACv is not stacked like DCv.

You have overlooked an outlet. Fridge or light. Kill the breaker and check all that is off. Usually, heavy loads closest to the breaker get fed first. In that box may be a branch out. Hatt does not have remote/invisible ACv junctions unless to a transformer.

Schematics are still available from Hatteras.

 

[Pascal]

I have the blueprints for my boat, they don’t show much when it comes to splices and locations. But again maybe by the late 70s they were better.

Grudges are almost always on a dedicated breaker and circuit.

I m guessing the galley outlets are fed thru the genny room out of that loom along the hull. Have you open the outlets and see if the connections are in there ?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

AMF greatly improved the electrical from what Rockwell had done. That was one of the main improvements they made. You can't really even compare the two.

 

[oscarvan]

AMF greatly improved the electrical from what Rockwell had done. That was one of the main improvements they made. You can't really even compare the two.

1972 was the AMF takeover I believe.... so Pascal's boat being a 1970 was before that.

 

[Captain Ralph]

1972 was the AMF takeover I believe.... so Pascal's boat being a 1970 was before that.

Pascal has rewired his ship. So it's better than better than better,,, it's much better now..

 

[oscarvan]

Pascal has rewired his ship. So it's better than better than better,,, it's much better now..

Yes it is. I was putting his comments about hidden junctions in perspective.

 

[davidwigler]

We are galley up. My 77 has hidden distribution bus bars all over the boat. There is one in the galley in the inside corner behind the backsplash panel. All of the original wires are neatly organized and numbered. The copper water line feeding the windshield washers also runs through there.

 

[Hatteras58]

Each of the galley outlets has one black and one white wire. We'll keep looking for bus bars and terminal blocks under the galley floor, in cabinets, in the generator room, etc. and I'll post again if we uncover the secret. Thanks for all of the comments.

 

[Oldlaxer1]

Just for giggles, look in the cabinet under the sink in the forward head on the aft bulkhead. I have a rather large junction box/ covered terminal strip in there that I've never investigated...

 

[Scarlett]

John is correct, under the forward head sink, I got very intimate with that bus when we removed our forward head all kinds of things junction at that bus. John

 

[Captain Ralph]

Just for giggles, look in the cabinet under the sink in the forward head on the aft bulkhead. I have a rather large junction box/ covered terminal strip in there that I've never investigated...

Woa
I would never had dreamed Hatteras would do this.

 

[oscarvan]

Woa
I would never had dreamed Hatteras would do this.

Yeah, wouldn't be my first choice location to put a lot of electrickity.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Well, I guess I am not as surprised now as I would have been a week ago. Hat tip to Pascal for assist with anchor windlass wiring - But now I am trying to track down the anchor windlass circuit breaker. I already discovered that the anchor windlass is missing the master "off-on" switch that Galley Maid shows in the wiring diagram - and the diagram on the inside of the junction box does in fact have it x-d out in ballpoint pen. I've looked in the engine room at the panel there with no success. My neighbors in the marina said to look in the generator room, near the battery bank. But one of them found their breaker in the master stateroom aft, the other under a lift-up panel in the ladder down to the staterooms. Both of them are on Carvers... But any suggestions would be appreciated.