An 'A-Frame'

[spartonboat1]

Well, since I seem to be committed to doing this in-frame re-kit of my 6-71N this fall-winter, (or do I need to be committed?), the major question seems to be 'raising' the engine up to provide access for the tech(s). The engine and trannie are about 3k #'s with trannie still attached (or is the trannie un-bolted from the engine?), so a major A-Frame seems in order for lifting.

I am assuming that whatever is constructed in the salon (43'DCFB) will need to be 'loaded' to the stringers. My first thought is it will be a frame constructed of 4x4's, with maybe a steel beam across the top at the peak. One of the techs involved claims to be experienced in this area, but I intend to meet and review this issue with them, since dropping the engine on a) a tech or b) on the bilge is absolutely, totally out of the question (obviously).

So what experience-based suggestions are there out there on this narrow issue?

 

[Canuck Dennis]

I assume you had the tech. confirm that the engine had to be lifted ?? or did he maybe feel it would make his job a little easier, once you get the pan out of the way, the rest is nuts, bolts and washers.

 

[REBrueckner]

How you make the A frame depends in part on the availability of lumber. Plan on spending more time than you expect acquiring parts and making one with which you will be comfortable.

My Dad and I made several by borrowing boat yard timbers....in short supply these days with adjustable metal boat supports.....we liked to lay something like a 4" x 8" flat on the floor to spread weight. Then we'd put a 2" x 4" or similar from under a supporting floor beam to a engine bed stringer...sometimes two if we could fit a pair.

If you have a horizontal beam at the top, a pair of vertical beams directly and vertically under to support the weight, then all the "A" part has to do is maintain stability...fastenings do NOT carry most of the weight.

Another approach is to check out a rental place for engine lifts.....I have also borrowed my mechanics metal A frame and his chain hoist...folding pipe type legs of the A tied together with chain....man was that FAST!!.....but that is also likely rare these days...finally, auto supply stores also have various type engine lifts...hydraulic included which you might be able to adapt.

If you are doing this in water: beware for once you get an engine lifted some dope will pass with a considerable wake and test the stability of your lift frame. Never seems to fail even during the winter!!!!

Depending on how long the lift will be, bracing the engine after lift to prevent it falling is a consideration. We sometimes laid some 4" x 4" diagonally across the engine hatch opening and attached a length of chain down to and engine support legs....

 

[DCMY #92]

Attached is a drawing of a portable gantry I've used several times to overhaul DDCs. It comes into the saloon in pieces and then assembles. Any steel fab shop could make one up for you from readily available steel pipe, angle and channel. It's very stable

I generally put a 4x4 about 4 feet long under end of the gantry to spread the load to the saloon floor and screw the bases of the gantry to these for a little additional stability. You will need to cut 2x4s to length to make temporary columns under each end of the gantry to the stringers.

It use two come-a-longs to lift the engine/gear (one on the forward engine lifting bracket and on the rear). This way you can tilt or level the engine/gear as it comes up to clear the edge of the hatch if necessary. Be sure to clamp a pair of channel-locks or C-clamps to the horizontal beam in front of and behind the trolley. This is to prevent it running forward or aft as you life and/or if the boat rocks.

After the engine/gear are up I support it with two more 4x4s across the hatch opening - one under the front mounts and one under the rear mounts. If positioned carefully you can still get to the pan bolts.

I generally have to take the exhaust manifolds off of the V-engines before the lift to get them out of the hole, but maybe you won't have to. Sometimes the heat exchanger also has to come off, but it depends on the hatch size.

Good luck.

 

[Boatsb]

The engine is about 2200 lbs. The tranny needs to come off anyway. I do not know about come alongz holding that weight comfortably but 2 trollys and chain hoists is best

 

[spartonboat1]

Another approach is to check out a rental place for engine lifts.....

If you are doing this in water: beware for once you get an engine lifted some dope will pass with a considerable wake and test the stability of your lift frame. Never seems to fail even during the winter!!!!

Depending on how long the lift will be, bracing the engine after lift to prevent it falling is a consideration. We sometimes laid some 4" x 4" diagonally across the engine hatch opening and attached a length of chain down to and engine support legs....

I notice that there a couple u big it, u own places in the area with a lot of systems for sale. Will check them out (e.g. Medema has a place). Bracing seems very indicated.

This will be done on the hard, so that the tech can go at a more leisurely pace. He has a little marine business in the summer, that slows in the Fall. He is a retired USCG diesel tech, plus has a 'big strong,' but older tech to help with setup and tools. Sez has all the tools needed for the head and injector work.

As a PM for living (well used to be, now they need help in the tech area, so that is where they let me be active), I intend to plan this as well as possible, without aggravating the techs. I used to manage skilled trades for a living, so mostly you need to ensure you get their input.

 

[spartonboat1]

Attached is a drawing of a portable gantry I've used several times to overhaul DDCs. It comes into the saloon in pieces and then assembles. Any steel fab shop could make one up for you from readily available steel pipe, angle and channel. It's very stable

I generally put a 4x4 about 4 feet long under end of the gantry to spread the load to the saloon floor and screw the bases of the gantry to these for a little additional stability. You will need to cut 2x4s to length to make temporary columns under each end of the gantry to the stringers.

It use two come-a-longs to lift the engine/gear (one on the forward engine lifting bracket and on the rear). This way you can tilt or level the engine/gear as it comes up to clear the edge of the hatch if necessary. Be sure to clamp a pair of channel-locks or C-clamps to the horizontal beam in front of and behind the trolley. This is to prevent it running forward or aft as you life and/or if the boat rocks.

After the engine/gear are up I support it with two more 4x4s across the hatch opening - one under the front mounts and one under the rear mounts. If positioned carefully you can still get to the pan bolts.

I generally have to take the exhaust manifolds off of the V-engines before the lift to get them out of the hole, but maybe you won't have to. Sometimes the heat exchanger also has to come off, but it depends on the hatch size.

Good luck.

Thanks majorly for the pdf. My assumption for the record is that the salon floor does NOT have the capacity to support a 3k# load, even if spread across the entire salon; unless supported directly under the floor loaded directly to the stringers.. That is why I thought 4x4's across the stringers would have a better load bearing capacity. Thank god Hatteras designed the engine beds and stringers with lots of capacity, which saw much stress during the one major blow I was in. Having a 6-71 come adrift in the ER in 15-20' seas is not a good concept!

 

[Boatnut]

You could also consider using unstrut to build the a frame, easy to work with, and no drilling or welding.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Geez... 6-71s are a walk in the park! I hafta climb around 12-71s under the salon floor and thats tuff! A few years ago, I pulled the port side Allison MH20 out for OH.
To get it up to floor level, I had to build a rig in place out of 2" pipe. For this job they were either 8 or 9 feet long. Made a pair of flanges that bolted to the stringers, threaded the pipe in, tied the tops together with a square tube with legs into the pipe, and used pipe strapping to secure it to the salon sole from tipping. To lift the engine, youll need another in the front. Personally, Id make the lift, then build some minimal blocking to set the engine down on, like a pair of transverse 4x4s, sharing some of the weight with the hoist. Nobody in their right mind would work under a rig on its' own!
Some logistics to consider: trans coming out? If not, the block is gonna hafta be slid forward 10 inches to clear the flywheel etc. Youll need to rig the trans and block it for this part as well. We'll continue on this after dinner! ws

Da rig with a 1-1/2 ton comalong

Strapping securing at deck level

square tubing on the top. Labor costs me a meal here and there!

DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE MESS ! ! !

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Theres a lot of dependzons with a job like this... dependzons if you have mounts like these to support the trans. If not, more rigging is in order... ws

This style shares the trans and the block. The pic also shows the rig bases on the stringers.

Two guys can lift the head off and carry it out, but ya need another rig to set it down with studs to align all the o-rings etc... you do not want a gusher when youre done now do you?

another measely 100 lbs thats totally unbalanced... like US ! LOL

Then theres the mid stream engineering revisions...

Meet Mr.Milwaukee! Dont cut any wires, hoses, or piping! More revisions...

 

[Canuck Dennis]

When I had the genset replaced, the yard had a small mobile with a really long stick, once we had the genny at the E/R opening, up and out she came, no problem, the tech wanted to built an A frame but I told him I had pre checked this and it would work.

 

[DCMY #92]

Here is a photo of the portable gantry with the engine up and secure.

 

[DCMY #92]

The engine is about 2200 lbs. The tranny needs to come off anyway. I do not know about come alongz holding that weight comfortably but 2 trollys and chain hoists is best

Come-a-longs rated at 2 and 3 tons are readily available. You could use a chain hoist, but a good quality come-along properly rated and maintained is no problem.

 

[Boatsb]

Come-a-longs rated at 2 and 3 tons are readily available. You could use a chain hoist, but a good quality come-along properly rated and maintained is no problem.

Don't tell osha. Come slings can release without a way to stop them. Get a chain hoist to be safe.

 

[Tim Powell]

Well, since I seem to be committed to doing this in-frame re-kit of my 6-71N this fall-winter, (or do I need to be committed?), the major question seems to be 'raising' the engine up to provide access for the tech(s). The engine and trannie are about 3k #'s with trannie still attached (or is the trannie un-bolted from the engine?), so a major A-Frame seems in order for lifting.

I am assuming that whatever is constructed in the salon (43'DCFB) will need to be 'loaded' to the stringers. My first thought is it will be a frame constructed of 4x4's, with maybe a steel beam across the top at the peak. One of the techs involved claims to be experienced in this area, but I intend to meet and review this issue with them, since dropping the engine on a) a tech or b) on the bilge is absolutely, totally out of the question (obviously).

So what experience-based suggestions are there out there on this narrow issue?

i AM SORRY BUT MAYBEE I AM MISSING SOMYHING ! If you are just doing a rebild. Just take the oil pan off and turn it one side to the other there is enough room to do the job at least it was in the 45c. Pistons conrcting rods and sleves came out the top barings were put in and torked from the bottom all of them. The heck with all the drama of scaffling.

 

[Boatsb]

Unless you need to put in crank and cam bearings. Rolling in bearings is an art but to be able.to.work.on it at table height is a big plus.

 

[saltshaker]

i AM SORRY BUT MAYBEE I AM MISSING SOMYHING ! If you are just doing a rebild. Just take the oil pan off and turn it one side to the other there is enough room to do the job at least it was in the 45c. Pistons conrcting rods and sleves came out the top barings were put in and torked from the bottom all of them. The heck with all the drama of scaffling.

I agree. No need to raise them unless access is really restricted. If they need to come up the gears will probably need to be removed. The hatches are probably too small to lift the engine and gear together. If you are going that far it might be worth taking the engine out of the boat and rebuilding in a shop. Much less labor than doing the job in the boat. Mine had to come up because I had down angle gears. The engines sat low in the bilge so you couldn't drop the pan. I would have pulled it but didn't have a way to do it at my slip. No lift at our club. I just did three kits on one engine. Rear outboard bank. Engine was left in place. This is in a big stand up ER with plenty of room. See how much room you have under the engine once the pan is removed

 

[spartonboat1]

i AM SORRY BUT MAYBEE I AM MISSING SOMYHING ! If you are just doing a rebild. Just take the oil pan off and turn it one side to the other there is enough room to do the job at least it was in the 45c. Pistons conrcting rods and sleves came out the top barings were put in and torked from the bottom all of them. The heck with all the drama of scaffling.

Very, very interesting thought, tilt to one side. Make good sense, if I can configure correctly. Do mind if I ask, how would you recommend securing the block, once it is free of the engine mounts? If tilted toward the CL, the head might come off 'first' before tilting. Then after the tilt, pull the pan (or as you seem to say, drop the pan first, before tilting) and address the bearing sets.

I hope to limit bearing to the con-rods, maybe main bearings. Always seem to pull 60#'s oil pressure at 1,400+ rpm and 20 or so at idle hot, minimum 15#'s, so the tech seems to think that con-rod bearings may be sufficient. He will plasti-gage the mains. He has done many 6-71's in the USCG (now retired) as they were the principal genset's power. I hope it is safe to trust him on the bearings, in light of his experience.

 

[spartonboat1]

Here is a photo of the portable gantry with the engine up and secure.

Thanks for the pix! I guess I am assuming that the salon floor is not adequate on its own to bear the weight. Are those 4x4's under the steel a-frame loaded below to the stringers via some vertical 4x4 unseen?

 

[saltshaker]

Why wouldn't you do the main bearings? If you're in that deep it would seem crazy not to do the whole job. As for the A frame, mine was on the salon floor. The floor was supported from the stringers below.