Air Conditioning Delema

[lumina]

Hi All.

Hopefully I'm using the right AC terminology!!

My two crusiair AC units (in the engine room) and the 3 remote evaporators/fans(?) are original to my 74 yachtfish. They AC units still work and produce strong cold air and heat.

The problem: The evaporator that cools/heats the forward berth isn't producing any air flow. The aft evaporator/fan that cools/heats the mid berth and aft master isn't producing any air flow to the mid berth but strong air flow to the master.

My captain and mate are refusing to sleep in the forward and mid berths unless the AC is fixed. In addition they say that the salon AC unit (in the engine room) vibrates so loudly they can't sleep and want that fixed as well.

I’ve talked to the crusiair dealer in our area and he doesn't feel it's really that loud, he says it's the compressor springs (?) getting tired????

He also tells me that I need 2 new remote AC evaporators (evaporator/fan combo) fwd and aft, the salon is fine, and that I should just run the AC units until they let go i.e. a couple of more seasons (the guys would have to live with the vibration). Can a crusiair AC's be rebuilt or can you purchase remanufactured? Is there a better reasonable option?

He has told me that replacing the remote evaporators and the new duct work now would not be wasted, it will work with the new AC units once we need them. Estimate for the 3 evaps and duct work $3500 appx.

To replace the 3 evaporators and the 2 AC units would run $9000 appx.

Anyone have any ideas or opinions?

Thanks

 

[MikeP]

Can't help other than to support the opinion that the original units are very loud in the guest cabin. The bad news is that everyone who has tried to sleep in out guest stateroom has complained about the noise. The good news is that none them want to come back for another visit!

Seriously, recent guests, who were supposed to stay aboard for 4 nights in June left after one because they couldn't sleep due to compressor noise.

 

[Angela]

Shop around. CruisAir's new stuff is crap; it's some of the most expensive stuff out there; and they don't stand behind their product anymore, even "under warranty." The folks at CruisAir who used to care about quality and the company name have retired and people like us are simply not their customer anymore - manufacturers are.

Modern condensing units/compressors are much more quiet than our old ones. CruisAir techs are always going to tell you that you need a new one, but that's not always the case. The truth often is that they don't want to work on the old stuff. They want to just shove a new on in the hole. You say your evap units aren't blowing air. Could it be something as simple as a fan motor? On the master/mid cabin unit, have you looked at the plenum to see if something collasped?

 

[Traveler 45C]

I read somewhere that compressors will get more noisy as they get old.

On my '72 boat, I've already replaced both compressor units and the forward evaporator (squire cage fan died, zero airflow). When I asked about rebuilding the compressor I was told that the rest of the parts were not far behind the compressor in failure and it was cheaper to buy a new unit rather than keep repairing that one. My salon evap is on it's last leg, it has a small leak that's very hard to get at. Replacing that unit is going to mean pulling apart some cabinetry so we've decided to just keep topping it off every now and then 'till it fails completely.

These 70's units are just old and tired.

I'm happy with my new gear though.

 

[bigbill]

make sure the evaporator coils and blower fan blades are clean, when i bought my boat, they were all covered in dust. = no air flow. you can have an ac man change just the compressors in the engine room, not the whole unit if you want to get out of this a little bit cheeper. the newer compressors will pull less amps, and be alot more quiet. bigbill

 

[SKYCHENEY]

We just installed the Coastal Climate Control digital controls on a unit in a 1978 Hatt. The compressor would make very loud noises before we put the new controls on. The noise was usually just when the compressor shut off. I suspect that the relay in the old control box was chattering and that made the compressor shake upon shutdown. With the new modern controls this unit is very quiet now.

As far as the air flow is concerned, maybe you just need a new fan motor. Are the intake screens clean?

 

[Bob Bradley]

Check the screens on the returns. I had put down new teak and holly soles a couple years ago and did all the cutting in the salon. Thought I vacuumed and cleaned up the dust pretty well. This year while replacing my genny, and standing in the hole where the genny used to be, I was able to look up the louvers from below and was aghast at the condition of the screen. There had to be 1/4" of solid dust clogging it. I'm surprised the unit ran at all.

Edit: Oh yeah, and as far as the noise goes, my salon is fairly quiet, but the staterooms are noisy as hell. It drives my wife nuts, but I just consider it "white noise" and ignore it. Cool and noisy beats hot and quiet any time. Plus, it drowns out any other noises that we might not want the kids in the v-berth to hear, if you catch my drift.

 

[TopHattandTails]

Simple fix for the "bothersome noise" A/C unit... have an extra cocktail just before bed.

 

[ThirdHatt]

The units do in fact get louder the older they get. They will rattle and make noise like a car engine with a rod knocking just before they conk out.

It sounds like you may need two new air handler/evaporator units, but you may just need two new blower motors which are CHEAP! Sure your compressors may not be far behind, but they may last another 10+ yrs.

I shared a big industry secret a few months ago ago about Cruisair and it has been largely ignored by those who have been burned by recent Cruisair of Florida purchases. Here goes again: Cruisair has TWO factories. The one in Richmond, VA is the original and still makes quality products, although not quite as good as the ones that came in our boats 30-40yrs ago simply because the parts are not as good. Their factory in Florida was another brand's factory that they took over but the quality control is nowhere near as the original factory and is what is giving today's Cruisair a bad reputation. Just ask anyone with newer Cruisair troubles and sure enough their units will have come from the Florida factory. If you need to buy/replace Cruisair equipment, MAKE SURE you get a unit made in Richmond, VA. 'Nuff said.

As far as new digital controls, there are new ones designed for your system directly from Cruisair that work very well. Don't let anyone tell you they're $400 because if you shop around you can get them close to cost which is only about $140. Easy to install too.

Although my units were noisy, they worked well and I never once had anyone complain about noise in the guest stateroom. Every person who has ever spent the night on my boat has woken up refreshed and said that they slept great. Only complaints I ever had was that it was too cold, which I consider a compliment! If someone ever complained about noise, I would simply tell them to write a check for all new A/C for me or go get their own boat and sleep on it!

 

[REBrueckner]

The above posts are right on: make sure passages for air flow are not clogged...especially screens. After you have done that, check the fans on the evaporators...if they are not turning, check the voltage right at the fan..maybe a wire is broken....or maybe a motor is burned out.....any kind of fan replacement will push air thru...it does not have to be an exat replacement if those are hard to find or expensive..a motor, if available, should be the easiest route....If there is cooling at the evaporators why replace anything unless you want more modern efficient compressors...

If the compressor under the salon is noisy, maybe a rubber mount bracket is worn out/broken. My 1972 YF has the a 1972 and a 1989 compressor...the fan and air flow in the salon is noisy enough, but not especially objectionable, that I can't even tell if the compressors are on or not...when checking, I always have to go into the engine room.

 

[saltshaker]

I second the Cruisair Richmond comment. I replaced one of my 1974 units about 10 years ago and the other one last summer. Compressors are in the ER and you can barely hear them. I still have the original evaporators in the salon and staterooms. No problems with them except the fans are a bit loud, but not enough to complain about.

 

[fixin-to-cruise]

I have a 1990 boat with 8 Cruisair units. They all have Tecumseh compressors, and I think that's what you have. The part number is on the top dataplate like "AKA5512E" in small print. I have replaced 3 compressors and the new ones are much quieter than the originals. They have a different part number and Tecumseh can give you the cross references - throught their website or tech support phone. A new compressor is about $300 for 12,000 Btu. The only other part likely give you trouble is a reversing valve. Those are made by Ranco and can also be bought at an A/C supply store, for about $50. I think all the A/C manufacturers use the same parts that cause the same problems.

The airflow problem is probably dust covering the evaporator fins. You can buy some cleaning solvent that is made for that purpose at Home Depot. Just get a spray bottle and rinse it off afterwards. It will just go down the A/C condensate drain from the pan.

 

[Pete]

A few additional ideas for you. First, do you oil the evaporator motors on an annual basis. All the motors used by Cruisair have sleeve bearings that need oiling. The oil that I find works longest came from a local HVAC parts place and claims to be "turbine" oil. It is a little plastic bottle that has a long extendable neck on it. They are usually on display at any parts place. I have recently replaced one original motor and the Dayton (Grainger) motor now has permanently lubricated sleeve bearings. Grainger has replacement motors that fit perfect, but if you are still using the original three speed motors I can't help with a source. Not sure if these are available any longer. My system was updated about 10 years back to the electronic controls. If you do replace the motor be sure to match the RPM of the original, or close. These motors come in 3000 rpm, 1500 rpm, and 1000 rpm. Has to do with the number of poles in the motor and only the 1500 and 1050 work with the electronic controls. Look for "shaded pole" motors. Second, do you have axial fan or squirrel cage fans. Axial fans are noisy, and have low static pressure and thus little air makes it through the evaporator coil, just lots of noise like a propeller plane try to take off. I have switched all of my units to squirrel cage and all the evaporator fan noise problems are gone. This is work but not complex.

Pete

 

[Capt K]

Edit: Oh yeah, and as far as the noise goes, my salon is fairly quiet, but the staterooms are noisy as hell. It drives my wife nuts, but I just consider it "white noise" and ignore it. Cool and noisy beats hot and quiet any time. Plus, it drowns out any other noises that we might not want the kids in the v-berth to hear, if you catch my drift.

Of course you realize that the noise you hear in your stateroom is not the same "sounds" the kids hear up forward, but if it makes you guys feel better.....

 

[TopHattandTails]

I have noticed that while the pressure reads "good" on the low and high sides with freon level, there seems to be a louder compressor if the freon level is not "exactly on". I had my units charged by a MARINE A/C guy and he took a little out and a little in on several units. A day or so later, I noticed that 1 of the units was a little noisy. He came back (free of charge) and adjusted by "removing" some of the freon. It was reading within tolerances, but was obviously a little high. Nothing wrong with the units, just a little "personal tweak" for the specific unit. Similar to the oil level in your motors - depending on install they like a specific oil level (some are a little higher / lower than others). Might try tweaking the freon level before buying compressors, fan motors, etc... Also check the plenums in case there is a kink somewhere. A good A/C guy will be able to tweak by listening to the compressor.