A/C installation - troubleshooting Pump relay

[captruffcs]

77 58’ up galley MY - pulling lower level splits and installing Webasto Cool Series all in one units. Everything is beautiful until I try to connect the Webasto circuit board pump wire to the pump relay box in the ER. Connect the wires and I get a humm from the ER relay. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Captain Ralph]

IF this is ALL 115Vac, You may have Hot & Neutral switched to the pump box.
With your DVM verify your Black and White pump control wires vs green wire (fault ground). Then with the new AC to Pump leads off, verify the points these leads connect to in the pump control box. One goes to ground, the other does not.
The one that rings to ground is where the white (neutral) leads goes.

If your ALL 230Vac, scratch this and try just reversing the pump control leads.

 

[captruffcs]

IF this is ALL 115Vac, You may have Hot & Neutral switched to the pump box.
With your DVM verify your Black and White pump control wires vs green wire (fault ground). Then with the new AC to Pump leads off, verify the points these leads connect to in the pump control box. One goes to ground, the other does not.
The one that rings to ground is where the white (neutral) leads goes.

If your ALL 230Vac, scratch this and try just reversing the pump control leads.

All 230Vac - when you say reverse pump control leads, to me I’m comprehending this as run wire directly from Webasto Motherboard pump plug-in to the pump. Bypass the ER relay. Correct?

That’s how I’d wire it if the A/C had its own pump, but since I have 3 additional compressors sharing the same pump with this one, will this create a problem?

 

[Captain Ralph]

No,, Reverse the red and black (or what ever color) leads to the pump controller trigger input.

 

[captruffcs]

No,, Reverse the red and black (or what ever color) leads to the pump controller trigger input.

thanks Captain Ralph - already tried it and nothing - tried a relay I know is working as well and same issue. Scratching my head on this one.

 

[Captain Ralph]

thanks Captain Ralph - already tried it and nothing - tried a relay I know is working as well and same issue. Scratching my head on this one.

I may be missing something,, electro/mechanical relay or electronic trigger?

The new AC pump signal is 230Vac?
Your pump is working now with other ACs?

Your in Pensacola now?

 

[cww]

Are the new self-contained units any quieter now? I did this on my Chris-Craft, I replaced the 3 split systems with self-contained units because it was a lot cheaper. Like half the cost, it was a big difference. I was pretty unhappy with the noise levels in the cabin after that, it just wasn't something I had considered.

 

[rwaldrop13]

77 58’ up galley MY - pulling lower level splits and installing Webasto Cool Series all in one units. Everything is beautiful until I try to connect the Webasto circuit board pump wire to the pump relay box in the ER. Connect the wires and I get a humm from the ER relay. Anyone have experience with this?

I actually had this issue with my second MarineAire unit - 220V unit and pump. The pump worked fine, but whenever hooked thru the unit relay it would chatter the pump for lack of a better term. After MarineAire refused to honor warranty and told me my warranty was now void (on a new unit), I asked around the marina and got told to just run the pump on it's own breaker and run continuously. This had 2 advantages. 1) It eliminated me trying to diagnose an issue on a unit that had already had one "DOA" issue, and 2) by using continuous run I could see how well the strainers were running. This last was a huge benefit, since the Caloosahatchie River here in Ft Myers was subject to sudden warming trends or if the CoE dumped water from Okeechobee, we'd go from "clean" to "clogged" in a matter of hours. I'm sure there are reasons to use the pump relay, but I had very few issues with running the pumps on continuous.

 

[captruffcs]

I may be missing something,, electro/mechanical relay or electronic trigger?

The new AC pump signal is 230Vac?
Your pump is working now with other ACs?

Your in Pensacola now?

Capt Ralph - keep her up at Joe Wheeler, just got back from her. I’ve got the new all in one unit hooked up and it’s working great. I’ve got it situated now where it will kick on the water pump when the compressor kicks on. But….I still have an electrical problem somewhere, the seawater pump relay box still hums when I give the new A/C power at the breaker. Gonna have to figure this out as it’s concerning me. Here’s a link to a video I took so you can hear what I’m talking about.
https://youtube.com/shorts/eaXYxe21dak?si=3ddmn22TyK4_Xyrk

 

[captruffcs]

I actually had this issue with my second MarineAire unit - 220V unit and pump. The pump worked fine, but whenever hooked thru the unit relay it would chatter the pump for lack of a better term. After MarineAire refused to honor warranty and told me my warranty was now void (on a new unit), I asked around the marina and got told to just run the pump on it's own breaker and run continuously. This had 2 advantages. 1) It eliminated me trying to diagnose an issue on a unit that had already had one "DOA" issue, and 2) by using continuous run I could see how well the strainers were running. This last was a huge benefit, since the Caloosahatchie River here in Ft Myers was subject to sudden warming trends or if the CoE dumped water from Okeechobee, we'd go from "clean" to "clogged" in a matter of hours. I'm sure there are reasons to use the pump relay, but I had very few issues with running the pumps on continuous.

I may have to do the same thing, would rather not, but if I can’t get this figured out then I’ll go that route.

 

[captruffcs]

Another question, the manifold on port side in Genny room (1977 58’ MY with up galley), the 2 forward stateroom air handlers condensation lines run to it. I pulled the air handlers and am installing an all in one unit in the ceiling above the forward head. Was hoping to use one of the manifold connection points from the condensation lines for discharging seawater from the A/C. However when I hooked it up, I got water back up through the line I’m using as a condensation drain line.

Im assuming this happened because that manifold can’t handle the amount of water coming out or there may be some blockage in the manifold? Anybody else have any knowledge or thoughts on this? I may have to take the discharge line back to the ER manifold but I’d rather not as I’m not sure my pump will be able to handle the distance.

 

[captruffcs]

Are the new self-contained units any quieter now? I did this on my Chris-Craft, I replaced the 3 split systems with self-contained units because it was a lot cheaper. Like half the cost, it was a big difference. I was pretty unhappy with the noise levels in the cabin after that, it just wasn't something I had considered.

The unit I put in Webasto BlueCool S-Series 16,000btu 230V is actually as quiet or quieter than the air handler I pulled out. I’m happy with the solution, however the unit has heat and the thermostat is set to maintain a temperature. So if it’s 72 degrees and I set the thermostat for 74, the heater will kick on. Probably just need to read the thermostat manual as I’m sure there has to be something in the settings that will correct this.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Are the new self-contained units any quieter now? I did this on my Chris-Craft, I replaced the 3 split systems with self-contained units because it was a lot cheaper. Like half the cost, it was a big difference. I was pretty unhappy with the noise levels in the cabin after that, it just wasn't something I had considered.

I put some soundbarrier insulation in (found it on Amazon) around my units. Dealt with noise nicely.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Another question, the manifold on port side in Genny room (1977 58’ MY with up galley), the 2 forward stateroom air handlers condensation lines run to it. I pulled the air handlers and am installing an all in one unit in the ceiling above the forward head. Was hoping to use one of the manifold connection points from the condensation lines for discharging seawater from the A/C. However when I hooked it up, I got water back up through the line I’m using as a condensation drain line.

Im assuming this happened because that manifold can’t handle the amount of water coming out or there may be some blockage in the manifold? Anybody else have any knowledge or thoughts on this? I may have to take the discharge line back to the ER manifold but I’d rather not as I’m not sure my pump will be able to handle the distance.

By condensation do you mean the catchbasin or the return line? I would say don't connect the condensation drains to any of the lines that are on the pumps. I ran the condensation drain lines into the shower sumps, eliminated any worry about where it was going.

 

[captruffcs]

By condensation do you mean the catchbasin or the return line? I would say don't connect the condensation drains to any of the lines that are on the pumps. I ran the condensation drain lines into the shower sumps, eliminated any worry about where it was going.

catchbasin - ran to shower sump in my master stateroom, however running forward stateroom down to the overboard manifold on the forward port side of the hull. Same place where the bilge pumps, sink drains and shower sump pumps overboard.

 

[captruffcs]

Capt Ralph - keep her up at Joe Wheeler, just got back from her. I’ve got the new all in one unit hooked up and it’s working great. I’ve got it situated now where it will kick on the water pump when the compressor kicks on. But….I still have an electrical problem somewhere, the seawater pump relay box still hums when I give the new A/C power at the breaker. Gonna have to figure this out as it’s concerning me. Here’s a link to a video I took so you can hear what I’m talking about.
https://youtube.com/shorts/eaXYxe21dak?si=3ddmn22TyK4_Xyrk

Just got off the phone with a Webasto technician, said this is relay chatter and it has to do with the voltage differences between CruiseAir and Dometic vs. Webasto units. There’s a service bulletin on how to eliminate this; see image below. I’m told this will not void the warranty. The image is hard to read - it can be found on Webasto tech bulletin site. It is document number PI161TP, Description: Multifunction Relay Box Malfunction - S Series

 

[rwaldrop13]

catchbasin - ran to shower sump in my master stateroom, however running forward stateroom down to the overboard manifold on the forward port side of the hull. Same place where the bilge pumps, sink drains and shower sump pumps overboard.

OK so for forward stateroom I ran to the forward shower sump/catchbasin - it was directly underneath where I installed the unit in the closet. Made for beautiful drainage and was easy to keep clean.

 

[captruffcs]

Resolved - see post #16

 

[captruffcs]

Another question, the manifold on port side in Genny room (1977 58’ MY with up galley), the 2 forward stateroom air handlers condensation lines run to it. I pulled the air handlers and am installing an all in one unit in the ceiling above the forward head. Was hoping to use one of the manifold connection points from the condensation lines for discharging seawater from the A/C. However when I hooked it up, I got water back up through the line I’m using as a condensation drain line.

Im assuming this happened because that manifold can’t handle the amount of water coming out or there may be some blockage in the manifold? Anybody else have any knowledge or thoughts on this? I may have to take the discharge line back to the ER manifold but I’d rather not as I’m not sure my pump will be able to handle the distance.

Sooo, after receiving some wisdom from others, I’ve decided to drill a new discharge outlet in the port hull near the existing manifold. I may do that on the aft unit as well even though that manifold is handling the A/C discharge pressure with no backup issues. Since the manifold’s are designed to handle gravity fed or bilge pump drains I’m concerned any blockage in the manifold through hull would result in my A/C water discharge backing up through the various gravity fed drain lines. Hate to put a hole in the hull, but I think this is the best way to do this.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Sooo, after receiving some wisdom from others, I’ve decided to drill a new discharge outlet in the port hull near the existing manifold. I may do that on the aft unit as well even though that manifold is handling the A/C discharge pressure with no backup issues. Since the manifold’s are designed to handle gravity fed or bilge pump drains I’m concerned any blockage in the manifold through hull would result in my A/C water discharge backing up through the various gravity fed drain lines. Hate to put a hole in the hull, but I think this is the best way to do this.

I guess I'm surprised you don't already have dedicated discharge thru-hulls for your HVAC. We had existing fittings in the generator room behind the Crusair compressors. When I removed all those, it made access a breeze compared to before, and since the Crusairs were all defunct no point in leaving them in place.