8V/92TA is a sleeved engine isn't it???????????????

[ron6785]

Talked with a guy next to me today who has a 58MY and said only problem is the 92's are not sleeved. I said , who told you that?? He said a Detroit Deisel Mechanic. News to me. I'm sure all detroit two strokes are sleeved am I wrong???

 

[SeaEric]

You're not wrong.

 

[captddis]

Don't let him near your engines! Amazing how much BS is out there. One" expert" on one of the snob forums says that if you rotate a DD the wrong way with a wrench, you will break the waterpump key. HA HA HA.

 

[Genesis]

Amazing.....

 

[krush]

Don't let him near your engines! Amazing how much BS is out there. One" expert" on one of the snob forums says that if you rotate a DD the wrong way with a wrench, you will break the waterpump key. HA HA HA.

And some people say an engine can't be properly rebuilt in the boat...and bearings can't be rolled in.

 

[Boatsb]

I didn't know the water pumps had keys? Where are the locks?

It's amazing how much everyone knows about things they don't work on. Rebuilding an engine every 10 years is not going to make anyone an expert except on the internet.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Don't let him near your engines! Amazing how much BS is out there. One" expert" on one of the snob forums says that if you rotate a DD the wrong way with a wrench, you will break the waterpump key. HA HA HA.

I've seen Detroits run backwards several times. How do I know? Well, when the black smoke is coming out of the air cleaner, its not turning the right way.

 

[krush]

It's amazing how much everyone knows about things they don't work on. Rebuilding an engine every 10 years is not going to make anyone an expert except on the internet.

What about watching somebody else do it?







What about watching somebody else do it and you are watching from the other side of the interwebz? If we didn't have forum educated internet experts, who would keep the world going? A boatdiesel.com membership is all one needs to become an expert diesel engine guru of all.

 

[ron6785]

What about watching somebody else do it?







What about watching somebody else do it and you are watching from the other side of the interwebz? If we didn't have forum educated internet experts, who would keep the world going? A boatdiesel.com membership is all one needs to become an expert diesel engine guru of all.

The thing I don't understand is why it costs so much 3,000 a hole to have them overhauled?? Is that for a major including the crank??? I had my Silver 8/92 done in my Newell motor home, an in frame, upper end including mains for 6000 total and that included milling the heads. Oh I forgot its a boat on water.

 

[saltshaker]

The thing I don't understand is why it costs so much 3,000 a hole to have them overhauled?? Is that for a major including the crank??? I had my Silver 8/92 done in my Newell motor home, an in frame, upper end including mains for 6000 total and that included milling the heads. Oh I forgot its a boat on water.

It all depends on what your looking to get done. A COMPLETE overhaul cost a lot for several reasons. There are a lot of parts to replace if you're doing it right. There is a lot of labor involved and the worse the access the greater the labor cost. Keep in mind your boat is at a dock, away from a mechanics shop and tools. Everything has to be dragged to and from the boat. Now take a look at how much room you have under the engines and consider working on the bottom end. Your RV goes in a shop and up on a lift where the mechanic can walk under it. My 6V92TA was in good shape when it failed due to a coolant leak into a cylinder. I had all new hoses and clamps, new fuel coolers, fuel and oil lines etc. so we didn't need to replace that stuff. It still cost me around 15K to get it done right. And yes it was done in the boat and the mechanic rolled in new mains. I spent over 15K replacing 3 kits, 1 turbo, 1 new head and some oil leaks on a 12V92. I had one bad kit so we did all 3 in the bank. That kit had a broken ring that damaged the turbo and the head, otherwise the engine was in great shape. That's in a boat with a big standup ER and room to work and store tools. Nothings cheap if you want to do it right.

 

[captddis]

You can't even buy the parts for 6K.

 

[Boatsb]

Yes you can.look at ebay. There's plenty of cheap parts there. Some may even fit. I am a big proponent of pulling the engines when possible for a rebuild. As stated before the labor will be less on a bench in a well setup shop and the savings there will probably cover the R&R. If it needs machining it's easier and more accurate than any rigs I have seen for inframes and there are a few things that just can't be done in many boats. That said the fact that you can have an engine run on a dyno is also nice.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Is there any way to compare the cost of in-frame rebuilds versus shop rebuilds? I would like to know what the difference is- seems that what you spend in pulling the engines you might save in shop hours, since doing it in the shop is more efficient. Not to mention that you can dyno the engines before they go back in- assuming they have a dyno big enough to handle a DD or similar engine, which may be a big assumption.

We've seen photos on this site posted by Krush and others of really huge industrial and marine diesels which have to be overhauled in place, and I understand those can't be done any other way. I'm just curious if it's possible to tell, on moveable engines, where the curves cross, if they do- when does it become pointless to take the engine out of the boat.

I know that I was involved in a med mal case as an expert years ago where one of the events was taking a 16v-92 out of a tugboat, and having it majored and putting it back in- that engine must weigh at least five tons, and it was removed for overhaul, from a working tug.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

Shop rebuild is easier, but in frame if reasonably accessible is maybe less expensive specially if you have some basic mechanical skills, the teardown on a 12-71 N can take about 12hrs for a novice, the big issues are the weights and moveability of cylinder heads etc, that stuff is HEAVY and needs to be handled with reasonable care, some of the re assy. can be done by the novice but this usually restricted to bolting up crankcase, replacing hoses etc. this can save big $$ and is not to be taken lightly as this stuff is critical when operating at full load. If in doubt, pay the man...

 

[ron6785]

I had the engine ( 8V/92 ) done about the time Detroit Diesel quite supporting the two strokes. I think it was a German company that started producing the parts. I've had too many sleeps since then to remember the name but its been mentioned on the forum. Did I mention they did alot of the job twice because the rings were slightly undersized and would not seat.

This job was done by The Cliff Hall Company in Laport,Tx. Does about a 100 rebuilds a year and has been working on Detroits for 40 plus years. While Cliff is a friend he didn't lose money for that 6000. and it was an upper end rebuild done in frame at his shop. Did not include turbo,injectors etc.

 

[Avenger]

Is there any way to compare the cost of in-frame rebuilds versus shop rebuilds? I would like to know what the difference is- seems that what you spend in pulling the engines you might save in shop hours, since doing it in the shop is more efficient. Not to mention that you can dyno the engines before they go back in- assuming they have a dyno big enough to handle a DD or similar engine, which may be a big assumption.

We've seen photos on this site posted by Krush and others of really huge industrial and marine diesels which have to be overhauled in place, and I understand those can't be done any other way. I'm just curious if it's possible to tell, on moveable engines, where the curves cross, if they do- when does it become pointless to take the engine out of the boat.

I know that I was involved in a med mal case as an expert years ago where one of the events was taking a 16v-92 out of a tugboat, and having it majored and putting it back in- that engine must weigh at least five tons, and it was removed for overhaul, from a working tug.

It's all going to come down to how difficult it is to get the engine out and that will vary with each job. For example on most metal-hulled vessels it's not a big deal to cut a hole in the side or deck, pull the engine out and weld it all back up when you're done. Since it's not common practice to cut a hole in a 53MY there's a lot of stuff that has to be moved to get an engine out. Apples to Oranges.

A CAT 379/398/399 is a good example since these are popular in tugboats and as generators. Just for reference it's a 6-1/4 inch bore engine. CAT makes a pretty slick tool to tilt the block to remove the crankshaft so it's very serviceable in place, and I'm not aware of anybody operating a big enough hot-tank for these blocks, nor a dyno to test them. In this case the only benefit to a shop overhaul is probably turnaround time i.e. not having to drive back to the shop for a forgotten tool.

One of my customers used to overhaul a lot of these, mostly generators. In some facilities there was access to bring in a truck and bring the whole unit back to the shop so that's what they did. OTOH Citicorp tower has a number of them on the upper floors for standby power. They got done in place. BTW, I'm told cramming a 1000 lb crankshaft into an elevator borders on being a magic trick.

As you said, nobody's trucking these anywhere:

As far as the extra cost for rebuilding a marine engine, the basic long block is probably comparable to an automotive engine. It's all the extra stuff, heat exchangers, coolers, water-cooled manifolds, intercoolers, RW pumps etc. You can go ahead and just do the engine, but if you're not doing all the other bits it's not a complete job. A good rebuild should have longevity and reliability comparable to a new engine which you're not going to get if you bolt a bunch of tired junk on your fresh engine.