65 Hatteras Aground Lessons to be learned

[spindrift]

I had an interesting talk with one of my yacht club members who know the crew of the 65 Hatteras that went aground in St. Augustine. They are two people from Newport. The story also made the local TV news up here. We have a mutual friend who was on the scene running the inlet in pretty big Little Harbor Sailboat roughly the same time that the Hatteras grounded.

This delivery skipper on the Little Harbor (who is an excellent capital with a lot of blue water miles under his keel) said the visibility conditions going into the inlet were bad… quite a bit of Fog and my understanding the Hatteras attempted to enter the inlet in poor light conditions as well.

This not the first time I have heard of this happening. I was in the North Sound of Virgin Gorda when a crew attempted night entry relying on GPS charts rather than using the range buoys.

This also happened on the entrance to my home harbor on broad daylight with a 60-foot sailboat that relied on GPS charts and did not give the sandbar a wide enough berth. I was actually aboard that boat with a visiting yachtsman who ignored by warning to alter course. He told me that the GPS charts said he was OK .. this despite me sailing out of that harbor for 40 years!

I think the lesson that we should all learn here is that the GPS charts, particularly in areas of shifting bars and down in the islands can be off quite a bit. The range buoys and other navigation markers are there for a reason. I think using radar to verify one is in the buoy range or channel as well as the depth sounder as a further check is key.

It appears that it can very easy to just turn on the GPS Plotter (often linked to the autopilot) and get into serious trouble by basically being lazy. I am really ultra careful every time I go out on the water and very careful entering harbors and running inlets that I am not familiar with.

Spin

 

[GJH]

Relying on a chart plotter for anything but a true class A inlet is indeed a recipe for disaster, many inlets do not have the buoys on the charts because they change so much, and even if they do update the chart you'd want that week's latest version. St. Augustine is one of these where all the buoys are not charted due to constant shifts so a GPS is virtually useless there. I like that inlet, but would never try it at night under bad conditions, though I'm not much of a night boater anyway. If I hadn't been there in a long while I'd call my tow company and get the latest scoop, though the LNMs are pretty good there.

This can actually be true in some of the class A inlets too, where temporary buoys get added due to shoaling, my current home inlet, Beaufort, being a prime example, though like most deepwater ports, there is good depth for pleasure craft just outside the channel in most spots... even still you might hit a new buoy if you weren't reading radar correctly.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

It's amazing how many boat owners who do not even have paper charts... I'll get a call to do a delivery and one of my first questions is..."Do you have paper charts?". I'll bet 50-60% do not........

 

[saltshaker]

It's amazing how many boat owners who do not even have paper charts... I'll get a call to do a delivery and one of my first questions is..."Do you have paper charts?". I'll bet 50-60% do not........

I never travel without them. Never seen a paper chart fail or need to be rebooted.

 

[Genesis]

Yep.

We have a seabuoy here that will get you SAFELY in the vicinity of the inlet; if you come in toward it without coming up on that first you're a fool, as there are shoals beyond it on one side, and if you're not locally-aware and try to cut it off you're in big trouble with anything that has material draft requirements. If you ground there you're going to do exactly what this guy did; if you're lucky you go up on the beach; unlucky and you go up on the jetties, which will REALLY ruin your day.

Once there even in relatively-poor visibility you have a clean shot at the actual markers for the entrance but there's also a marker just inward of the entrance itself that you MUST keep on the correct side once again if you are in anything that requires a material amount of water. 5' is definitely material; I can play fast and loose with my center-console, but you don't dare do it with anything that needs more than 2-3' of water to float. Get this wrong and you will go aground right in the inlet, especially if conditions are a bit rough or worse, which is pretty-much your worst nightmare.

You can aim at the seabuoy with a GPS but you damn well better not try to shoot the inlet using only a GPS or you are definitely asking for it, even if it works "correctly" all the way in.

 

[Avenger]

This also happened on the entrance to my home harbor on broad daylight with a 60-foot sailboat that relied on GPS charts and did not give the sandbar a wide enough berth. I was actually aboard that boat with a visiting yachtsman who ignored by warning to alter course. He told me that the GPS charts said he was OK .. this despite me sailing out of that harbor for 40 years!

So what did you say when the boat stopped suddenly? This kind of reminds me of the story of the gov't farm inspector who is told by the farmer that he couldn't go into a particular field. The inspector shows the farmer his badge and says "This badge says I can go into any field I want." Minutes later he's running screaming being chased by a huge bull, so the farmer yells "Your badge! Show him your badge!"

Kind of a parallel story, so I'm trying to think of a witty response like "show the sandbar your GPS and ask it to move".... or maybe something that's actually funny.

 

[GJH]

The channel buoys for St. A are not charted, paper or electronic, as "Note C" on the paper chart will tell you. Just the entrance sea buoy and #2 just inside it.

 

[saltshaker]

The channel buoys for St. A are not charted, paper or electronic, as "Note C" on the paper chart will tell you. Just the entrance sea buoy and #2 just inside it.

Pretty standard for most Inlets other than class A inlets.
This ones got a bit of shoaling going on. Might want to favor the green

 

[Pascal]

Paper charts are a must but once I am coming in in the dark and/or dense fog, I will not look at them; there is just too much to pay attention to between the radar, dual independent plotters and looking outside.

Night isn't as big an issue as fog since you can spotlight the buoys and match them on radar. Fog though can be a real pain and it s very easy to get disoriented. I remember coming into Hyannis for the first time about 2 years ago in typical new england pea soup. It was the day before the Figawi with sailboats coming in and the fast ferry heading out at 15kts+. The channel has a few turns and it s easy to miss a buoy echo when you re watching that big thing closing in at high speed. The key is to constantly question yourself and triple check that you re not missing a buoy.

But at least in New England the rocks don't shift and the channels are charted. Smaller inlets like St Aug are different ball game. I always call the local sea tow ahead of time before hitting an inlet where local knowledge is needed

This one would have been a tough call. Coming in thru the St. John instead would have been the safe option but you arrive at the sea buoy and the fog is rolling in, back tracking 30nm isn't appealing. While st aug had issues in the past it was dredged earlier this year making it seem safer

 

[rsmith]

The United States Coast Pilot® consists of a series of nautical books that cover a variety of information important to navigators of coastal and intracoastal waters and the Great Lakes. Issued in nine volumes, they contain supplemental information that is difficult to portray on a nautical chart.

Topics in the Coast Pilot include channel descriptions, anchorages, bridge and cable clearances, currents, tide and water levels, prominent features, pilotage, towage, weather, ice conditions, wharf descriptions, dangers, routes, traffic separation schemes, small-craft facilities, and Federal regulations applicable to navigation.


http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/nsd/cpdownload.htm


When I took the Six pack and Ocean operator tests back in the 70's you were required to memorize the Coast Pilot for the region you were licensed for. Initialy my area was Sandy hook NJ to Cape Chas Va. Every light house, navaid, inlet conditions were to be commited to memory. Now you can get a near costal masters with a cram course and limited knowledge and skills. Yes the advances in electronics,thrusters and other crutches can make an incompetant operator look good but when the chips are down they as the kids say EPIC FAIL.

Although its been some years Ive been through Augustine many times. There is a sea buoy but not much untill you get well inside the inlet. A lot of inlets like this they will put in mid chanel buoys which are a guesstimate where the deepest water is. First time I ran Augustine I was coming up from Palm Beach and got to the sea buoy just before dusk. It was blowing 10-20 NE and breaking all the way across. I knew it was a local knoledge inlet so I sat offshore for a little bit studied the break and called on 16 for some local knowledge. The CG is worthless due to liability reasons you will get a disclaimer and told to procede at your own risk. I had a shrimp boat Capt call me back and gave me the low down. IMHO you are always better talking to a commercial guy that uses the inlet on a daily basis. But no matter what anyone tells you you need to use your own eyeballs and wits.

 

[Boatnut]

The United States Coast Pilot® consists of a series of nautical books that cover a variety of information important to navigators of coastal and intracoastal waters and the Great Lakes. Issued in nine volumes, they contain supplemental information that is difficult to portray on a nautical chart.

Topics in the Coast Pilot include channel descriptions, anchorages, bridge and cable clearances, currents, tide and water levels, prominent features, pilotage, towage, weather, ice conditions, wharf descriptions, dangers, routes, traffic separation schemes, small-craft facilities, and Federal regulations applicable to navigation.


http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/nsd/cpdownload.htm


When I took the Six pack and Ocean operator tests back in the 70's you were required to memorize the Coast Pilot for the region you were licensed for. Initialy my area was Sandy hook NJ to Cape Chas Va. Every light house, navaid, inlet conditions were to be commited to memory. Now you can get a near costal masters with a cram course and limited knowledge and skills. Yes the advances in electronics,thrusters and other crutches can make an incompetant operator look good but when the chips are down they as the kids say become EPIC FAIL.

Although its been some years Ive been through Augustine many times. There is a sea bouy but not much untill you get well inside the inlet. A lot of inlets like this they will put in mid chanel bouys which are a guesstimate where the deepest water is. First time I ran Augustine I was coming up from Palm Beach and got to the sea bouy just before dusk. It was blowing 10-20 NE and breaking all the way across. I knew it was a local knoledge inlet so I sat offshore for a little bit studied the break and called on 16 for some local knowledge. The CG is worthless due to liability reasons you will get a disclaimer and told to procede at your own risk. I had a shrimp boat Capt call me back and gave me the low down. IMHO you are always better talking to a commercial guy that uses the inlet on a daily basis. But no matter what anyone tells you you need to use your own eyeballs and wits.

Good advice, nothing beats local knowledge from a true pro. Best post thus far in the thread.

I would be very worried being a passenger on many of the new boats with all the electronics, and a new captain. Blow a fuse, and they are lost.

The crowning modification I saw was a new carver owner replacing his (according to him) outdated magnetic with a new state of art electronic one.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Yes, and how many of new magnetic compasses installed get swung? And how many boaters know what that is, or how to do it?

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

Or then put something metallic next to the compass....

 

[Glory]

So what did you say when the boat stopped suddenly? This kind of reminds me of the story of the gov't farm inspector who is told by the farmer that he couldn't go into a particular field. The inspector shows the farmer his badge and says "This badge says I can go into any field I want." Minutes later he's running screaming being chased by a huge bull, so the farmer yells "Your badge! Show him your badge!"

Kind of a parallel story, so I'm trying to think of a witty response like "show the sandbar your GPS and ask it to move".... or maybe something that's actually funny.

I Know many skippers who have been chased by the bull, some of them often, saddly.

I can also say that it is easy to get comfortable with a good plotter, if things, or should I say when, go wrong it is to late to go get the chart out.

JM

 

[captddis]

Yes, and how many of new magnetic compasses installed get swung? And how many boaters know what that is, or how to do it?

Most of the time I ask if the compass has been swung, I get a vacant look. Not too many adjusters around any more either.

 

[Boatsb]

One old guy in the area that repairs and adjusts them but he's semi retired. No one looking to take over the service either.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

It is becoming a lost art. And when I look at most new boats, I see cheap compasses that probably can't be adjusted. They just throw them in there with no thought as to the proximity to electronic or other magnetic deviation.

I guess it doesn't matter, though, since most owners will never look at it anyway.

 

[rsmith]

True Virgins Make Dull Company add Wisky

 

[saltshaker]

True Virgins Make Dull Company add Wisky

so devious!

 

[34Hatt]

It is becoming a lost art. And when I look at most new boats, I see cheap compasses that probably can't be adjusted. They just throw them in there with no thought as to the proximity to electronic or other magnetic deviation.

I guess it doesn't matter, though, since most owners will never look at it anyway.

You mean like when they say "Hey Check out my new Speakers I added into my Dash"