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How about a clod plate freezer and fridge instead of the model we have....

  • Thread starter Thread starter nyrussell
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nyrussell

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Hatteras Model
40' DOUBLE CABIN-Series I (1986 - 1989)
Fridge is original, sucks power, and is making funny noises at times. I am considering putting in a sailboat type setup.... You know cold plates in insulated boxes. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not but it is worth considering....
 
I chartered a sailboat in the BVI in 1978 (CSY) and 2005 Moorings. Both had cold plates and they worked fine. The 05 boat had a generator and still used cold plate system. To me, the fact that charter boat companies use them speaks well for the system; however, what do those systems cost? I suspect several times more than a household refrigerator and probably more than a refrigerator, inverter and battery bank combined.

I suspect you would get less noise and more reliability, but additional cost, especially with installation would never be paid back. Also, where would you put it? Isn't your layout is based on a traditional refrigerator. I would spend my time looking for a quiet refrigerator and an inverter system.
Vincent
 
I agree with you about the Norcold fridge being power hungry and LOUD. I purchased my last boat new and the fridge was just as loud as my present 21 year old, so age has nothing to do with the noise level.
I agree with Vincent as to the solution. If you find a quiet fridge that fits your boat let us know so I can get one too. Ron
 
I have been down this road three times when replacing fridges on larger sailboats, one had an 10KW genset. Here is what my research and experience have found.

1. Stay away from the cold plate system. The temperature is too variable. As the cold plate discharges temperature gradually drops. A simple evaporater system is just fine rather than the cold plate.

2. The new Danfoos compressor, which just about all of the manufacturers use now, is a very efficient 12 or 24 volt unit (you can order it either way).

3. You are limited to about 9-11 cu. feet max for a single danfoos unit. You can use two units if you want more space. One would be dedicated to the freezer, the second to the fridge.

4. You will most likely want a front loading rather than top loading unit. What I have done to overcome the tendency of the cold air splling out is to hang a series of vertical plastic strips (about 2 inches wide) from the top of the inside of the box. You just move the strips aside to get at provisions that you need.

5. I would recommend that you use a water cooled unit. The unit I last used, and was very pleased with, was the Frigoboat keel cooled. This has a small heat exchange plate on the outside of the hull. You will need to bore a small hole for this through hull heat exchanger. It is a nice neat tidy instillation that avoids clogged strainers associated with normal water cooled pumps.

6. Most important is the construction of the box. Yes, the Norcold are typicall modestly insulated boxes. You need to have a good carpenter help you build a custom box to match the existing cabinatery. You can buy higher-tech insulated panels from companies such as Glacier Bay and doors to enure a well insulated box. I think you need to figure at least 3 inches of high tech insulation all around.

With a good battery bank you can get by with a once a day charge of the bank. This will eliminate the need for running the generator at night unless you need the AC on.

If you want more help please let me know and I will provide you with some direct links.

Cheers
Spin
 
OK

I went back to my records and have turned up the following info:

1. Isotherm max capacity is 9 cu feet in stainless. They do have an 11 cu foot unit in white

2. Sun frost has a unit that is 19 cu feet. It looks like the 16 cubic foot unit would fit better in the boat such as the 53 MY. With doors removed looks like it would go down the companion way but is heavy at 300 lbs. Appears to be much better insulated that isotherm and about 30% more in price. The company will do a custom box if that that is what you need. These units can be ordered with 12 or 24 volt DC compressors or AC 120 or 220. Not sure if a combo can be had.

Cheers
Spin
 
Have a simple solution which is not where you are headed. Go to Sears/Lowes/Home Depot/etc/etc, find a refrigerator/freezer that fits both in the cabinet and through the largest path you have or can create. Install, get a inverter, and sit back and think about all the money you saved, the fact that it will probably last longer than you want, you will not get to work on it, and just how quite it is. Plus, today's units are all energy efficient. Try finding that claim on a marine unit. There is beauty in simplicity and mass produced products. Our Sears unit was there 8 years ago when we bought the boat, as was the inverter, works like a charm, and does not crave attention, like most marine items. Just a thought.

Pete
 
I forgot the most important feature of the simple approach. The simple, energy efficient, cheap, long lasting, household refrigerator/freezers also self defrost. SELF DEFROST!!!!

Pete
 
Okay, i Might need a sawzall for a new fridge and then an electrician to work on the ac/dc plug... And I can still put in another freezer in the hole in the counter. But seriously we do need to do something soon. Bloody fridge vibrates the saloon floor LOL. Well, after the fire clean up etc...

We get to do that ourselves.... Light Soil clean up $5000 and the exterior is our deductible. So, it will happen when we get into the clean up. Hmmm I wonder what a cutting board counter top runs....
 
we have a cold plate freezer on the 70 footer i captain, it stays cold for a long time even when teh genny is off... it has a remote water cooled compressor in the ER, with the air cons... works well.

the key though is insulation... you need 3 or 4" of good insulation so it requires a lot of cabinetry work.

If i ever redo the galley in my 53, i think i woudl look into subzero drawers, although they're not cheap... one set where the fridge is, and the other set across where the oven it. Then replace the microwave with a GE convection/oven/microave... more counter space, same refrigeration/cooking capabilities
 
Agree totally with Pete. In '06 we installed a new Fridgidaire 22.6 Cu Ft household side-by-side fridge in our 53 to replace the old side-by-side, which was itself a replacement for the original side by side. A lot easier and cheaper than re-designing the system! Just find a fridge that will fit and be done with it! Take CAREFUL MEASUREMENTS of the space and the access and MEASURE the actual fridge before you buy. Don't trust the manufacturers specs - they will get you in the ballpark but you need to be sure.

Also consider that you may have to remove parts other than the door from the new fridge to get it into place. We had to remove the wheels to fit it in place, and some assorted screws to get clearance through the passage to the galley. Yep - the thickness of screwheads determined whether it would pass or not! ;)
 
Last edited:
Pete said:
I forgot the most important feature of the simple approach. The simple, energy efficient, cheap, long lasting, household refrigerator/freezers also self defrost. SELF DEFROST!!!!

Pete
Click to expand...


The self defrost uses quite some energy, especially if it comes on every day when it isn't truly needed. I heard in the old days that some fridges had a counter on door openings and would cycle the defroster after X number of times the door was opened. If the door isn't opened, there is no reason to run the defroster.
 
I think most if not all of today's home refrigerators run on a self defrost timer. Every so many hours of operation, the timer shuts down the compressor, turns on a heater at the evaporator, and then restarts when the evaporator reaches a predetermined temperature. Condensate finds its way to a pan near the condenser and the condenser fan evaporates the condensate.

So, yes it takes power to heat the evaporator every so often, and then to recool it. On the other hand as the ice builds on a manual defrost evaporator, its efficiency decreases. Also you have to shut the whole thing down to defrost it and then recool the entire unit. I am not sure which method wins on least energy consumption over an extended period. But self defrost is my choice, no contest. Big reason, I do not have to defrost it. Second reason, self defrost refrigerators also have a built in condenser fan, to carry the heat away and evaporate the condensate, that make them much more tolerant of the close confines of boat cabinet work. Manual defrost units need a loose fit to allow the condenser heat to rise naturally and move away from the refrigerator. Remote water cooled condensers also solve this problems, but who wants to maintain another sea water cooled device, and pay for it in the beginning?

Pete
 
The inverter/battery bank ran our current fridge for nearly 48 hours when the boat was hauled in the summer for bottom painting a couple of years ago and when put back in the water, the same batt bank that powered the inverter/fridge started that main engine instantly. I think the efficiency of the Outback 3232 inverter is part of that equation but current fridges, despite the fact that they don't last long compared with those made many years ago, seem to be very efficient energy-wise.
 
We have installed two new home style refrigerators on Loose Change since '82. While they work well for their cost, there are a couple of pitfalls to look out for. Of course, I learned these the hard way.

If you need to add a hook to prevent the door from opening underway, be VERY careful where you drill holes in the casing hear the door. To prevent sweating of the outer casing the compressor routes hot gas through tubing located between the insulation and the outer casing hear the door (right where you would most likely drill a hole for a screw to attached a door latch hook. You can probably figure out how I know this.

The first home style refrigerator's doors rusted from the inside out. There was no paint on the inside surfaces. When we installed the second one some years later, I disassembled the inner door liner/shelf assembly, door gasket and insulation - then primed and painted the inside of the doors. No more rust.

The first unit we installed had a forced air cooling fan at the bottom. The second one does not. Instead it has a large coil mounted on the back of the unit. I like the non-fan version better. It's quieter and doesn't suffer from dust fouling the coil.
 
To add to the post re securing the doors - Be sure to secure the fridge itself. Ours is held in by a bracket to the floor and a metal "L" that runs across the top of the fridge and is screwed to the cabinet above. The L is attached to the fridge with 5200.

Also one note re household fridges. Ours will stop working in rough water. I'm talking about conditions you would prefer not being in, not just some chop that sends water over the boat - I mean quite uncomfortable, boat pounding/rolling, people seasick stuff. It will reset but needs to be unplugged for a few minutes to do so. It's not a big problem but it's worth being aware of. I have no idea if it's typical of all household fridges or just the Fridgedaire.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future (or maybe already) you will see DC brushless fridge compressors and thus real sized DC units.

Of course a DC brushless motor is essentially an AC motor with a fancy controller LOL
 
Ok, I am now considering 2 weaco fridge/freezer units stacked, Plus a freezer cold plate installation in the "bin/well" where i keep some pots right now....

Question, How hard is it to insulate correctly as well as set up a good cold plate system in the box. I intend to run the compressor from the engine room behind the bulkhead and might even keel cool it, not sure yet LOL
 
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