Low sulfur diesel fuel

[RonNP]

How will the mandated low sulfur diesel fuel affect all of us with Detroit Diesel 2 strokes??


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartandhp

[rustybucket]

From my understanding.... which is not perfect I'm sure.... the lower sulfur rating results in reduced cetane levels, which reduces the lubricity of the diesel fuel. So with reduced lubricity you can expect injectors and any parts that are lubed with fuel to wear faster.

To offset/counteract the lower cetane/lubricity there are several aftermarket fuel additives. After much research I have settled in on adding 1 gal of 2 cycle tcw3 marine oil per 200 gals of fuel, this gives a 1:200 mix ratio. I use walmart brand and it runs approx $13-$14/gal. Be sure you use the tcw3 b/c of it's low ash content. 2cycle for a mower/weed eater will have too much ash to run in a detroit.

I do not know if this actually does anything or not. Maybe it's snake oil....? I do know for a fact that the engines are audibly quieter when I started adding the 2 stroke oil.

[oscarvan]

I don't think you've been buying ships "heavy" oil at the pump.... To my knowledge both on and off road diesel (farm and waterfront for us) have been ultra low since 2014. So, the answer is no difference.....

https://www.bellperformance.com/bell...u-need-to-know

[Boatsb]

How big is your boat?

It's for bunker oil. All diesel in the USA is low sulphur. That's why we need to add lubricity to it.

[rustybucket]

This chart is a little tough to read b/c of the stupid photobucket watermark, but this chart is part of what I based my decision to run 2 cycle tcw3 on. It seems there are better alternative fuel additives, but with the amount of diesel we run through our engines some of them are very cost prohibitive.

One REALLY ironic thing about this chart are that the realization that Lucas and Marvel Mystery oil actually decrease the hfrr score.....

[oscarvan]

Interesting. You got me researching.

Important to note that the improvement listed is over BASE, ie the 636... So in theory you apply the improvement over US standard and you get a 116 point head start to end up much lower. That said, I saw several reports that after under cover testing the US standard at the pump is not guaranteed, in fact some stations didn't even come close. I suspect the oil companies save money here, and who's gonna notice?

As a very interesting side note Cummins, for the first time in history, is now approving additives for use in their engines. (Important not to add anything they don't like if you're under warrantee like I am in my motor coach), ie the Power Service Diesel Kleen and Cetane Boost.

Question I have is whether Detroit has ever specified a desired HFRR score for the mechanical engines? A lot of this is critical in the modern high tech tight tolerance injector pump, but it would seem the old injectors on the 71/92 engines would be a lot less sensitive..... (and easier/cheaper to replace). Lift pumps I'm sure don't care either....

IOW, is this an issue in the older engines?

[oceanjake]

Wait, my head is spinning at the moment. Is this to indicate that other hatteras owners are ALREADY adding 2-stroke oil to their fuel or some other additive? I've never heard of this.

[madhatter1]

Wait, my head is spinning at the moment. Is this to indicate that other hatteras owners are ALREADY adding 2-stroke oil to their fuel or some other additive? I've never heard of this.

I'm glad you asked! Last Detroits I owned were pre smog fuel so never thought of this. Also wondering if anything should be added.

[oscarvan]

BTW, here is a link to the complete report that the chart rustybucket provided originates from.

https://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTec...itive_test.pdf

I have only one question... who the hell is Arlen Spicer? And are there any other studies confirming these results?

[rustybucket]

Wait, my head is spinning at the moment. Is this to indicate that other hatteras owners are ALREADY adding 2-stroke oil to their fuel or some other additive? I've never heard of this.

I have been using tcw3 2 cycle oil in all my old diesels for probably 4 or 5 years now. Thanks to oscarvan for posting the entire results of the report, quite an interesting read, had never read the white paper that went with the chart.

So basically what led me to tcw3 is that I was using lucas, always had (my grandad did) and I wanted to do some research to see if it were necessary, doing any good...etc. I did some internet research, found several references to 2 cycle oil tcw3 being used as an additive and it being superior to lucas. Talked to a couple of 'old timer' injector shops (tractor and marine) and several other old timer diesel guys and all knew about using 2cycle oil and either recommended using it or at least use some other additive.

I used lucas and then 2cycle in my last boat which had cat 3208's and have used it pretty religiously in our 8v92's since purchase/rebuild.

I also use it in my tractor (Ford 3000) and occasionally in my Ford powerstroke 7.3.

I swear I can hear/feel the difference in the engines of all 3, my truck, my tractor and my boat when ran with/without the 2 cycle. All seem to quiet down and not have as much diesel 'rattle'. I do not think it affects performance in any way (at least that I can tell).

As to the question: Do these old detroits really need lubricity?

Need...? I mean these things will run off of pretty much anything you feed them. Some guys I know dump their old engine oil into the fuel tank after changing oil.... The question really should be will it increase serviceable life of them. I personally think that anything you can do to increase lubricity of a de-lubricized (did i just make up a word?) fuel will indeed increase serviceable life of the engine and fuel system.

If you look at the diagram of the detroit 2 cycle fuel injector, you will realize how many intricate moving parts there are to these things. The injectors perform 4 functions, they time, adomize, meter and pressurize the fuel. In modern diesels injectors perform half of these functions and some of them are controlled by electronic actuators.

Although these are just 'old detroits' they are actually extremely sophisticated examples of engineering.... You want roller bearings? Detroit got um! You want common rail fuel injection system? Detroit got it! The list goes on. Many items manufacturers of new diesel engines tout today are already on our old detroits. I can't tell you how many times I've heard an engine mfg boast 'common rail fuel injection' lately. pshhh we got common rail in WWII engines here.

I'd never suggest or recommend anybody do anything to their engine just b/c I do it. By all means do your own research, determine what is right for you. The one fact that we can all agree upon is that fuel today is not the same as it was when our engines were engineered. In fact it is quite different. What you do with that knowledge is completely up to you.

This pdf is a pretty good read, I keep a copy in my boat file for reference. Explains the detroit fuel injector in pretty good detail.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=25&ved=2ahU KEwi55c_5n7jjAhXnYN8KHS3oC0oQFjAYegQIBhAC&url=http %3A%2F%2Fbusgreasemonkey.com%2Fuploads%2FFileUploa d%2Fb8%2Fc6b33345182ddfb99f558ca4a29209.pdf&usg=AO vVaw1wlyKIM4tYHsqDjiVEvrqj