Capilano Helm Removal - Ram

[JD5652]

Well... here we go again...

Attempting to remove the port side ram. The hydraulic ram is secured into their respective mounts with a stainless steel pin 5/8" diameter by 2" long. The one on the fixed end came right out. The pin attaching the ram to the rudder assembly got stuck just below the top side of the clevis.
I've tried PB Blaster, heat on the rudder plate, WD 40. I'm about to take out the cutting wheel and cut the friggin' pin so I can get the ram out to get rebuilt and then worry about the stuck pin later. The rudder assembly appears to be bronze.
Thoughts????

 

[Captain Ralph]

Beating on it will not work well.
A small gear or bearing puller will.
I'm thinking of something that looks like a battery post/clamp remover.

 

[JD5652]

Well... learned an important trick today.
Since I was not making much headway on this ram, I decided to go to the starboard side and take that one off.

Same procedure, removed the "C" clips from the top of the pin and drove the pin out of the side on the fixed side. It came out with ease.
Went to the rudder plate side, removed the "C" clip and starting driving the pin out. Started coming out with ease UNTIL the top of the pin was even with the rudder plate. SOOOOO... I STOPPED! Scratched my head and thought " both of these can't have the same issue??... can it??".

So I removed the cotter pin from the pin on the bottom. Banged on the pin from the BOTTOM.... voila!!... it came right out.

Evidently the holes are different sizes in the ram plate versus the hard mount side. Also, I guess the pin os ever so slightly OVERSIZED above the "C" clip groove.
Now all I have to figure out is how to drive the other pin from the bottom..... tomorrow... it's late and I need a cocktail.......

 

[Captain Ralph]

it's late and I need a cocktail.......

Very well understood after another day working on our boats. ☺☺

 

[JD5652]

Well... I gave it a 1.5 hour try this morning. Got the pin to move up about 1/64", but no further.
Tried to configure my puller to get a bite on it... too many things in the way and couldn't get a good angle on it.
Resorted to placing a crow bar underneath it and hitting top of crow bar while the bottom crows foot was angled to put upward pressure on the pin.
Didn't have time to put some heat on the plate and tray the same maneuver.
Anyone know where to buy a mini hydraulic lift that will fit under a 2" space??
Next step might be to use a cutting wheel to cut the pin off just below the ram plate. At least then I can get the ram off and out of the way.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Could you put a socket big enough for the pin to fit into above it and use a C clamp to press it up from beneath?

 

[JD5652]

This might have some promise....

https://www.amazon.com/NEWTRY-Hydraulic-Cylinder-Protable-Industrial/dp/B082X42MYJ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

 

[Bob Bradley]

Or remove the entire bracket from the rudder and do the job on a workbench?

 

[Bob Bradley]

Is the cylinder putting pressure on the pin restricting it from being tapped out? Perhaps turning the helm slightly will free it up.

 

[JD5652]

Could you put a socket big enough for the pin to fit into above it and use a C clamp to press it up from beneath?

Problem is I can't get a good bite on it around the ram plate....

 

[JD5652]

Is the cylinder putting pressure on the pin restricting it from being tapped out? Perhaps turning the helm slightly will free it up.

Nope.. I have ram cylinder totally disconnected. The pin is free to move upward. With the cylinder in place, it will have to pass through the hole in the clevis.

If I cut the pin and remove the cylinder, then logistics of getting to the underside of the pin gets quite a bit easier... plus the pin then will not have to move through the clevis hole.

 

[Bob Bradley]

How about 2 pieces of bar stock with bolts and nuts to pressure them together? Put a hole in the center of the top one for the pin to pass thru as you tighten the bolts. Use a small socket as a drift from the bottom to push it the rest of the way up and out.

 

[Briankinley2004]

Im pretty sure the ram shaft on the cylinder will rotate. Can you leave the bracket on the rudder and just unscrew the shaft making sure you use care gripping it and only grip the area that won't retract into the cylinder?

 

[JD5652]

Or remove the entire bracket from the rudder and do the job on a workbench?

I did think about removing the complete bracket. Wasn't sure how that bracket supports the entire rudder assembly. At first glance, it looked like that bracket supports the entire rudder. Did not want to lose the rudder in 18 feet of water. But I'm not sure if I remove that bracket does the rudder stay in place??

 

[JD5652]

Im pretty sure the ram shaft on the cylinder will rotate. Can you leave the bracket on the rudder and just unscrew the shaft making sure you use care gripping it and only grip the area that won't retract into the cylinder?

I did think about that. Unfortunately the jam nut is all the way down against the threaded portion of the ram shaft. Therefore I cannot loosen the jam nut.
With the ram cylinder completely disconnected, the ram body simply spins on the shaft. The ram shaft is not fixed internally to the body. Did not want to put any locking pliers on the bare shaft and score the shaft. It's my under$tanding that the ram $haft$ are very expen$ive and the finish needs to be pristine.
Thanks to everyone for their recommendations.
I ordered the mini-hydraulic pump I noted above. It will be here tomorrow. Will give it another shot tomorrow or Wednesday.

 

[whoover]

Just a thought, would a big wrench on the jam nut unscrew the ram from the clevis. You may get lucky.

Walt Hoover

 

[JD5652]

Just a thought, would a big wrench on the jam nut unscrew the ram from the clevis. You may get lucky.

Walt Hoover

I did try that .... I could not get the shaft to rotate with putting some considerable pressure on the jam nut. I didn't want to break anything on the ram itself as tho$e get pricey pretty quickly.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

There should be a collar with a set screw holding the rudder from falling out.

 

[JD5652]

There should be a collar with a set screw holding the rudder from falling out.

I'll double check when I get back to the boat. It "appeared" to me that the ram plate was connected to the rudder shaft by the bolted connection you can barely see in the bottom right corned of this photo.
I did not see any other collar, but neither was I looking for anything specific.
It "appeared" to me that if I removed that bolted connection, there was noting else holding the rudder in place. But I've never had this apart and am not familiar with its design.

 

[drewread]

of this photo

This is probably a stupid question, but I have to ask it..

You did elevate this end (red arrow) so that the unit is level across the blue line so you are physically binding the pin in its hole?