48 Yachtfish main helm station wiring access - Hynautic hose leak

[drewread]

I have a hydraulic leak in my main helm station steering system. How does one get into the back side of the helm station to access wiring and hydraulic systems?

 

[Timeless72]

It's a pita. The gauge panel comes off. I relocated the gauges and converted to an access panel. Should be another panel in aft closet ceiling.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Lift the dash up.

 

[drewread]

It's a pita. The gauge panel comes off. I relocated the gauges and converted to an access panel. Should be another panel in aft closet ceiling.

Lift the dash up.

I assume you both are suggesting that black gauge panel lifts up. I figured the same and tried it - It came up about two inches and offered decent resistance after that, so I assumed that I would be unwiring everything on the gauge cluster if I pulled further.
The panel in the aft closet ceiling is where all of the hydraulic fluid had been leaking all over my clothes washer all winter... That particular hole will need to get substantially larger to be of any use at all, maybe that will be tomorrow's project. Even if I made that hole large enough to stand up into I don't think I could move while I was in there. It is also quite a way up to the hydraulic lines.

It's a mess up in there.
I was a bit surprised the wall behind the main console in the main salon didn't easily open up with access to that area. It looks like there is some 3/4" ply in the way there though - plus all the copper hydraulic lines run up behind that salon wall.
Thanks for any further suggestions.

 

[Timeless72]

Mine was a rats nest too. Once organized, you can stand on a ladder in the closet and do what's needed. Barely.
You could last option cut a hole from the salon, then trim it out and hang a picture.

 

[drewread]

Managed to pry the gauge cluster panel up just enough to get my arm down the back. Not a great situation, but better than not getting an arm in there at all.

The oil and transmission pressure gauges are stopping it from lifting any further, if they were 18" longer there would probably be access.
I did manage to get a look at the back of the helm pump, and it looked like one of the fittings coming out of it was quite wet. So I managed to wrestle a wrench in there and tighten up that fitting. Hopefully that solved it for now.

The larger issue will be getting the panel to lift in a useful manner, then I can tidy up all the abandoned wiring.
Anyone know what hoses are used for those pressure gauges? My other alternative is to go electronic on those gauges and not have oil run throughout the vessel. One of those gauges may also have a slight leak as well. Tightened it up a bit too, but it may be leaking out of the gauge, can't really see.

Thanks all.

 

[whoover]

My oil pressure gauges were electric but my gear pressure gauges had a length of flexible hose like yours from the hard copper. It might be easier to remove them and have a hydraulic shop make up new ones at the length you want.

Walt Hoover

 

[drewread]

So, I have wrenched this fitting as much as I can. The leak has slowed, but it is still there.

I think it may actually be coming from the fitting that is in the helm pump. That fitting had no more room to tighten it, it wouldn't budge. Is that fitting removable (I didn't try to loosen it yet?)
I did try and loosen the hose fitting and quite a bit of oil started pouring out, I know some of that will be from the helm pump itself, but if I let the pressurized air out of the reservoir will it push less oil out?
I'd like to remove both fittings and take a look at them without soaking the washing machine below any more than it already has been Then on reassembly I'd use some thread sealant on the small fitting which would help reseal it if I can get it undone.
Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[whoover]

Once the air pressure is released the oil will not spurt out, just some oil from gravity. There may be an o ring inside the steering block behind that fitting that can be replaced.

Walt Hoover

 

[Captain Ralph]

Patience....
Tighten it up and watch your pressure gauge a few days.
Just because you made a tension adjustment and you think it is still leaking does not mean squab.
It could still be fluid dripping from the previous leak.
Patience.
Clean up what you can and wait, watch that pressure gauge.

Yea, raspberry the guy that put that rats nest together.

 

[drewread]

It was definitely still leaking today, I put a clean oil absorber sheet around the fittings in question last night and they were wet with oil this morning.

So I pulled it all apart again today and put some thread sealing compound on the threads of the fitting that goes into the steering pump. I only dropped that part into the laundry room 6 times before I got it threaded on. Pretty slippery with dripping oil and sealing compound.

I only broke both engine start switches and a few wires in order to get my arm in far enough to use a wrench, sigh. One step (maybe) forward and one of two back. This happens everywhere I go on the boat.

This access MUST be improved, it is unworkable - no wonder nobody bothered trying to fix all this stuff.

The flybridge has a set of mechanical gauges sitting right beside a set of electronic gauges for each engine. Why replace the broken ones with ones that work? Just put new ones in beside them and leave all the other crap behind. Sigh.

I am hopeful that means that there are electronic senders for all these gauges already and that I can simply replace these mechanical ones with electronic ones and get rid of all the oil pressure hoses that are stopping me from opening the gauge panel.

 

[Boatsb]

I hope you used a hydraulic sealant like locktite 567 not standard white teflon paste or tape.

It's a hydraulic system so you need to use the good stuff. And by the way that stuff is a bit pricy.

 

[drewread]

Yep, I have hydraulic thread sealant.

 

[brettportzer]

This access MUST be improved, it is unworkable - no wonder nobody bothered trying to fix all this stuff.

Most all of my boat projects are centered around making things more easily accessible for when they need to be fixed next time.

 

[drewread]

Well , time for a quick update on this.
I pulled the oil gauge pressure hoses and ordered longer ones. That's one issue solved.
Today I pulled all of the wiring off the gauges and switches and ran them all to some terminal blocks and a ground buss that will be mounted below the panel.
Tomorrow I will rewire the switches and gauges back to the terminal blocks with enough wire to flip the gauge panel up completely out of the way.
She's still a mess down below, but I'll be able to clean that all up once I get her moved closer to my house.

This has been a great exercise and allowed me to learn how all of these systems are run and where they all go to.
Because of this work I solved a grounding issue on my starboard engine shut down actuator. It wasn't working because a red(!) ground wire was not attached when I put back together a relay that was broken off a wooden panel before the winter.

That ground is now much shorter... And black!
Oh, and I'm pretty sure I have fixed the Hynautic hose leak as well. That has been dry for a few weeks now.

 

[whoover]

Yes, all the wires are red and hopefully with numbers on them but in my case the drawings were long gone.
Walt Hoover

 

[Captain Ralph]

On SOME installations, The block is not the best return for ground, battery negative supply.

Follow the negative battery lead to the starter, on that B- starter post, does another cable/strap tie to the block? If so, all good. If not, it's a B- isolated block.

It may be working for now, finding a return thru the bonding system, that is not proper.

Consult your print set for details.

 

[drewread]

On SOME installations, The block is not the best return for ground, battery negative supply.

Follow the negative battery lead to the starter, on that B- starter post, does another cable/strap tie to the block? If so, all good. If not, it's a B- isolated block.

It may be working for now, finding a return thru the bonding system, that is not proper.

Consult your print set for details.

Noted. Will investigate, lots of mods over the years. I'm 100% confident that the relays on the back of the sign boards is not factory installation.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Drew, there was a period of Hatteras manufacture (inc my 1971 36) where all the wiring was red with little numbers attached- not their most brilliant idea, because the numbers dried out and fell off. To be fair, I think this was before ABYC codes etc. I rewired the whole downstairs helm in my boat- it was much easier to get to, and it still took me about ten hours to get it done. Hang in there.

Ralph is right about the bonding system- I found some of those "grounds", too, courtesy of prior owners. I also found the reason that the new 40 amp charger would not keep the batteries charged- the return for the charging circuit went through one tiny wire, about 16 gauge. Once I installed a set of charging returns, suddenly the batteries were fully charged all the time. It's amazing how much you can improve things by just remembering that electrons flow in a circular path.

 

[drewread]

Oh, I'm more than hanging in..

The hoses are a bit long, but they are really flexible and just fold right into the cabinet.
I still have the 8awg battery, ignition and ground wires to run as I have to order some #8 ring terminals that will fit the #8 screws on the terminal strips.
I'll be relabelling everything with the factory numbers (which are now mostly on the floor - lucky I flagged all of the ones with loose looking number tags!) once my new labeller arrives. For now they are all flagged with e-tape and Sharpie.
There are a few mystery wires for me to figure out still, even after all of my pre-marking. But I'll sort those out soon enough.