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Thread: %@#$&*** Cetol!

  1. #11

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    You all have convinced me not to put any more Cetol or Armada on my boat. However, this winter I will need to do the swim deck and the ladder treads, which are part of the few wooden items I still have left on Blue Note, and I am curious: who uses what on exterior wood like swim decks and ladders, and who recommends what? I am particularly interested in what Yachtsman Bill and Chris have to say, no offense to anyone else...

    I used Armada 2000 for a while and liked it; then they stopped making it. Does anyone know if they make anything similar, or anyone else?

    Mike, I am eagerly looking forward to the time when I can start worrying about cosmetics on my boat. There is a man coming from Slane's shop tomorrow to spend a few days up here working through the punch list on Blue Note; maybe after that I can start to think about how things look.

  2. #12

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    I guess that over the years, the one thing Ive learned is that wood is painted for one of two reasons; down south, the sun beats up varnish, and you want to hide rot with bondo... as in a painted wooden transom.
    1. In the souther lats, even morninig dew acts as many microscopic magnifying glasses burning up the brightwork. Unless you can get up and wipe it all down with a chamois, it will soon overtake you. Even then, 2-3 times a year, youll need to scuff and re-coat the BW or it'll always look neglected. Thats the worst part of being a paid hand on a yacht. The only way to overcome this is with solids. Paint is over that hurdle with OPACITY.
    2. Even up north, we have to deal with temperature extremes, freezing / thawing etc. Coatings will only cyclicly stretch so much. Once breeched, the end is inevitable!
    3. Ive never paid much credence to anything other that varnish, because even the REAL expensive stuff and catylized stuff will fail from neglect, then youve got your hands full with removal / damage. With oil based varnish, you stand a good chance of being able to sand out blemishes and blend in some fresh topcoats. with 2 part stuff, you can forget it. Youll see highs and lows,
    like painted over chipped finishes, and soon loose interest in doing a pretty job. Oil based stuff can be easily stripped chemically as well. Just try stripper on awlgrip (sic).
    4. Personally, Ive used a variety of varnishes. McCloskey's , MINWAX, Varathane ( which BTW is whats used on skating rinks and bowling alleys! ) all with great results. The key to that stuff is TONGUE OIL, plus solids, and a stout amount of UV inhibitors (chemical sunlight filters). In a nutshell, they are all sold as spar varnish. At around $10 a quart, with 89 cent BRISTLE brushes, you cant go wrong. Compatabilty between brands isnt even an issue being oil based either.
    Red garnet sand paper is another chapter. Park a Chippendale armoir outside for a year and see what happens to it. These are yachts, and everyone expects them to look like new forever. It wont happen!
    The old Roamer (aluminum) is just like an old Constellation on the outside ... ALL WOOD. Not to mention the interior. Its nice to look at beautiful wood, but it takes DEDICATION. Ive even gone as far as removing the full 5/4 X 6 inch wood toerails and welded up 5 inch bullwarks. Even the awlgrip is only good for 10+ years ! The CC mohagony has all been trim capped with teak. That in itself, being oily wood needs cleaning with acetone before varnish to get the finish down into the grain for a "solid" bite.
    Breech that, and its back to square one, again!
    This may seem long winded, but as Ive said all along, its a lot of personal technique and dedication. Of course, you can pull the wood rails and use stainless tubing for that searay look (raaalph)!
    The circled pic is for SKY... recognize the spot??? ws
    Last edited by yachtsmanbill; 09-30-2007 at 09:51 AM.

  3. #13

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    Do you need a little iron in your diet Bill? 'Cause that looks like Fayette to me. Maybe we can meet up there sometime.
    Sky Cheney
    1985 53EDMY, Hull #CN759, "Rebecca"
    ELYC on White Lake--Montague, MI

  4. #14

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter P View Post
    Angela,

    How do you like using Bristol as compared to regular varnish? I need to prepare my bright work for the tough NJ winter and am considering Bristol over the existing Interlux #95. Good idea or bad? Advice anyone.......

    Walt
    I love it. It takes far less time than a god varnish job and lasts for years without re-coating. Put on 4 coats in sucession about 2 hours apart,(next day OK). Now sand with 220 and do 2 more coats. If you are real fussy, sand and re-coat one more time. Now forget it for at least 5 years. Watch out on swim platforms. I think the stacked pieces of wood would start a peeling event with the sun and sea water bath constantly causing the wood to grow and shrink. I use a teak oil with UV inhibiters on the platform.

  5. #15

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    Thats where my ashes are headed when theyre done cuttin' me up.
    SNAPPLE harbor; best place on earth !! ws

  6. #16

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    Quote Originally Posted by yachtsmanbill View Post
    Thats where my ashes are headed when theyre done cuttin' me up.
    SNAPPLE harbor; best place on earth !! ws
    HOF rendezvous there around 08-08 ??? Maybe I'll tow the Roamer for a tender !! ws

  7. #17

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    Maynard,
    I used Bristol this past spring (late May) on my rails, mast support and deck box feet. After following the instructions of their tech support to the letter it began peeling in August and I had to add another 2 coats on top of the 4 original. Needless to say I was not happy.

    Here is the process performed:
    All varnish was taken off - down to bare wood with scrape-80-150-220 grit
    All surfaces were then wiped down with Acetone then tack clothed
    Day of the deed weather was 69-71 degrees 47% humidity and no wind
    Used the wet-on-wet method per tech support with 1.5 hours between coats
    Total of 4 coats no sanding between coats and let dry overnight (no dew)

    It looked pretty good but then the peeling in August and for Michigan that's not to impressive.

    Back to varnish this winter....
    Mike Stailey
    1978 43 DC/FB

  8. #18

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    I do around 8 coats of Bristol, and it's still holding up in the Florida sun from when I did it - I think it was January when I started that job. I have just made Sunbrella hand rail covers to extend the life. I wonder why all the different outcomes.....
    Ang
    1980 58MY "Sanctuary"
    www.sanctuarycharteryacht.com

  9. #19

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    I think differences in mixing ratios must be it. They say you can mix by volume or by weight. I use a little kitchen scale to mix and get it exact to the gram. I have only used bristol inside on my parquet floor so it's probably not as critical though. I still prefer regular varnish, however.
    Sky Cheney
    1985 53EDMY, Hull #CN759, "Rebecca"
    ELYC on White Lake--Montague, MI

  10. #20

    Re: %@#$&*** Cetol!

    WRT Bristol, I think you may be right about the mixing. I mixed by volume, and on the larger batches for the swim platform (also did the boarding ladder at the same time), it worked great, no bubbles (except for a dew problem solved by a sand and recoat), and it has held up very well so far. Platform gets wet a lot, and is going strong after a year, ladder doesn't even show a scratch. Not as lucky with the bridge ladder, OK looking (some bubbles which I blame on wind and humidity - the stuff is tempermental at application), but I'm starting to see some signs of failure on the edges of the steps. The steps are the same on both ladders, and I thought the prep/application was the same, so why the different results? My guess is the small batches were not mixed precisely correct.

    I use spar varnish (interlux high gloss) for everything that doesn't get walked on and believe that with care every 18 months or so, it gives the best overall results - looks great, holds up OK here on the Chessapeake, and is easy to repair/re-coat/remove with a heat gun/carbide scraper. Just not hard enough for high traffic areas like ladders. I can't get Bristol to yield the same high gloss smooth shine, but it looks almost as nice. I'm not a pro, but have done a lot of wood working, although most of it has been interior/furniture, not marine applications.

    Regards, Bob K

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