Jack/Orca's Repower Thread

[garyd]

Maynard, Thanks for the help on the liferaft!.

If I had a convertible I would cut a hole in the back and put the engines in whole. We did that with my 41C model. Engines went in whole with everything on them including transmissions. It was less time and money and better all around than doing it in pieces. Fiberglassing up the back and painting is realitively painless compared to moving very heavy parts around in a tight engine room and getting it all torqued up correctly.

garyd

[Jackman]

Gary,

I was able to put the 454's in fully assembled with the tranny and all wet exhaust parts attached. Was awesome to do it and saved a ton of time. I expect and hope I can do the same for these engines. I figure if they can be installed in the boat they should fit because the hatches open up fully towrds the transom. I have a crane lift everything to the boat. I don't even need to take the hatches off. The engines fit right in!

The cummins I'm looking at will have 10degree down angle trannies for the reasons already mentioned. The guy offered me an upgrade for the 370's for an extra 1k each but I just don't see how I need the extra HP. I don't want to kill my fuel economy either. I was told 22kt cruise 14gal/hr. Thats about 5kts more cruise speed at 1/3 to 1/2 the fuel usage. With a 370 I'm sure the fuel usage would increase at cruise speeds. I wouldn't know if the difference in cruise is worth the increase in consumption. I would probably have to change trannies and shafts with more hp as well.

I don't know about getting rid of the strainers...I'm paranoid about getting crap where it does not belong and toasting an expensive engine.

[garyd]

Yes putting them in fully assembled is the way to go if at all possible.

If it were me I'd go with the 370 for 1k more ea. If you still go 22kts it should not burn really any more fuel to speak of. The one thing you will get is a solid 22kts even when your fully loaded and that is nice.

Once the Admiral packs her full she will slow down then it's nice to have the extra ponies. No one has ever said wish I got less HP but I've lost count on the folks that have said I wish I would of opted for the bigger HP.

I'd take the 80hp and not do some kinda foo foo in the cabin.

garyd

[JTS]

Another plus for the wedge type strainers; The zebra mussel invasion has expanded into our area. Some boats with the conventional scoop/strainer setup had overheat problems with mussels clogging the strainers. No problem with the wedges.

Another thought on seacocks. Groco makes a two port seacock; One for cooling and the other could be used for fresh water flush or to plumb in winterize antifreeze. Also if you use the one with the round base you can bore out the existing thru hull hole and reuse the three thru bolt holes and point the handles the best way just by drilling three new holes in the round base to match your pattern.

Bulk filter is cheap insurance and easier now than later.

[jim rosenthal]

I do not have inside strainers on my boat. I use the coarse bronze screens on the wedge strainers and they work fine. At least they do here in the Bay.

Tolchester are very experienced at repowers. They are expensive, but they know what they are doing and generally do a good job.

The difference between the V8s and inline sixes as far as whether you need a downangle gear is considerable. I have yet to see a V8 in a boat this size which needed a downangle gear. On the other hand, I have never seen one of these installations which did NOT need a downangle gear. I suspect you will need them too. Either the ZFs or there is a lightweight case TD that works fine as well.

I think the Fleetguard filter system is a bargain. You might also ask Tony about Wolverine pan heaters. I have had those for a few years and swear by them...they are great. 250 watts per engine is fine. Everything I have ever gotten from Tony was exactly as advertised and worked great.

[Jackman]

So in addition to Tolchester Marine, who I am visiting on Sat AM I came across another guy in Leipsic Delaware, that was recommended by someone else. This guy is saying I should consider the 370B with 1.75 to 1 gear...saying it will be more economical and have a better cruise. Now...gee...This guy also said if I bring my boat to him he'll allow me to do the work in his yard and allow me to use his facilities as far as the crane ect to get the engines in place....now what the heck do I do...I thought I had my mind made up?

[the kuz]

Jack, we had Tollchester do our 1977 36C in 2005 and are very happy with the results. They did what they said they would do for the price/schedule they quoted, and in fact threw in some extras as things went along. The quote included lots of stuff that I would not have thought about and with 20/20 hindsight I'm glad got done (e.g. new fuel lines, battery boxes, etc.) They also fixed (drove 80 miles one way to my house) a few little things under warranty (no charge). Charles is a man of his word, and Wes Denton the local Cummins rep is a great asset. So, if you can do the $, that's a low risk option with a re-power source that has sucessfully put in a lot of B series engines. That said now that I have watched my re-power job, I might be tempted by a yard that would let me do some/much of the work but would not have wanted to own the result of my first re-power effort. It's a lot of money to risk for a less than optimal outcome. If you (or someone you know) has done one on a similar boat, it would't be too hard to do #2. I did not spend the money for dripless shafts. They have to run engine cooling water to the gortex packing, but I have not touched mine in 600 hrs and they are still perfect. Be sure you ask for an ER paint job, and negotiate things in/out once you have your quote. Good luck, you will love the results - like a new boat!

Regards, BoB K

[Maynard Rupp]

The late model 36C and the 32 have tunnels. Some guy measured our shafts and said they are 7 degrees down from the engine rails. I was also told that you don't want the engine nose down. the main reason the Crusaders can use a straight drive is that the Warner gear has no offset. The ZF and TD gears have the prop shaft coupling a little more than 5" below the crank. I am warned to stay away from ZF gears that were once Hurth. That limits our choices and the best appears to be a ZF 280-1A. This is an extra strong gear with a 7 degree down angle. The only problem is the price. They are about #5600 ea. The boat bucks sure keep adding up for this project. We are looking at a parts cost of $65,000. Ouch. I could do the whole thing myself, hell I used to build fuel dragsters, but I don't have a facility, cranes, chain fall systems etc. If I could pay someone to get the Crusaders out and the Cummins engines sitting on blocks in the engine room, I could take it from there. I do wish I were 20 years younger though. My back is getting sore just thinking about this project. our Crusaders are running perfectly also, which throws a bigger question on the project. My only concern is ruining the tank. I guess I don't know where we fit in the resin OK process. We will change the engines to 6BTA Cummins, but I hope I have a littlle time.

[jim rosenthal]

Jack, I don't think you need the 370Bs at all. Tom Slane uses the 330B engine, with a 1.75 gear, in the Series 1 36 boat and everyone has been very happy with the result. I bought the 370s because I already owned the 1.5 gears and thought that the bit of extra torque would be helpful. I did not want to resell a set of nearly new gears with 500 hrs on them, to get the 1.75 ones.

As far as who does all this, all other things being equal, the shop closest to your house is the best one. You can keep an eye on them.

The ZF 280 IS a bigger gear- it will take more power through it. Whether it's needed is debatable; ZF rates the 220 gear for 380hp, I think. I have had no problem with mine.

Think of this part as fun- you are getting to make all the decisions, and everyone wants to be your pal while you are shopping for all this stuff.

[Banshee36]

I was reading the comments on the re-powers. I must know what is a header tank?
JW