Jack/Orca's Repower Thread

[Jackman]

I guess I should start this since I've started a list of things I need to buy for this project...with that comes a lot of questions ..

The project...converting a 32' Hat to diesel using cummins 330B engines with a 1.5to1 tranny and at the moment 21x21x4-bladed props. I have the exhaust system in place, my aquamet 22 1.5inch shafts are fine and my intakes will be changed to 2" from from 1.5"(originally thought I had 2 but was wrong!) Here are some of my initial questions:

1) What is the optimum type of fuel filtration system to use on this project? I know its based on fuel flow rate at cruise but I see all kinds of choices but some look overkill and some don't. Also, these multiple filtration systems...I always though piggybacking filters leads to fuel system issues like leaking or allowing for a greater chance of introducing air?

2) Dripless shafts, any special things to avoid?

3) My biggest concern....engine mounts! I currently have the aluminum hatteras rails set up for 454's. Is there some way to use these rails or do I have to start from scratch?

My approach will be to tackle those things that will allow me to get the engines in the boat fastest because the engines will not take that long to get to my boat once they are ordered. I want to be ready to get them in place because I don't want to let them sit around.

Thanks for all of your pointers in my previous posts!

Jack

[Starman]

Jack,

I Would remove the old aluminum rails, especially if they show any signs of corrosion. This is not that hard to do.

We did it in Boss lady, and Don Charland did the same in his 34.

We used steel rails, and Don is doing the same.

I painted the bottom side of the rails with a heavy epoxy, then bed them in ad tech. On our stringers, there are plates under the fiberglass and we just had to drill holes and align the new rails with the existing holes and bolted it down.

I expect your stringers are going to be like Don's......Hollow.

Don epoxied the inside, and I told him about the 2 part poly foam. He filled those hollows and glassed over the top and now he has solid stringers ready for the new cap rail.

[Jackman]

That's kinda what I had in mind....match the holes on the new rail up with the threaded holes in the strainger. My thoughts are concerning the actual platforms the engine mounts and tranny mounts sit on. They must be raised to a certain level and at a certain angle to get the tranny to mate with shaft and have the engines sitting at the correct angle.

[Akyla]

Jack,

I did the entire diesel conversion for my 36 and dealt with all the same issues but I had Jim Rosenthal's boat to look at and it gave me the mount dimensions that worked in his and I just replicated the engine mounts.

The fuel filters are a personal taste issue. I llike the racors as they have never given me any trouble in several boats. Some don't like them at all and go with other brands. I had some set up that filtered in series and one set that I could manifold over to a fresh filter if the first got clogged. Both systems worked fine without air induction or any other issues. In converting my boat I did a fuel manifold so either engine can pull or return to either tank.

I was not able to use the original Hatt aluminum mounts as the gas engines mounted up entirely different locations and angle. I suspect that you will not be able to use yours either. My solution was to find an aluminum extrusion that fit over the stringer exactly as the original mounting rail did. Machined holes into it to match the bolt down points of the original and made other alum shims to go under the mounting feet all pre drilled for the mount bolts and then had them all anodized. Still look great today. You will probably have to wait until you get the engines into the boat to decide exactly where to drill for the new mounting feet. In mine there is a steel plate in the stringer that you can drill and tap for the mounting hold down bolts once you know where you need to put them.

I looked at a couple of the dripless seals and went with the PSS - no trouble in 6 years now. Easy install and zero maintenance. I did toss the small hex screws for SS square head bolts and nuts though as the hex screws are a pain to get out if they corode a little.


Good luck on the project. With planing it will go well dispite the unexpected suprises. In the end it will be well worth it and you will be driving an entirely different and better Hatteras.

[Maynard Rupp]

We are planning a similar project with our "86 36C. We will use the re-man 370 HP Cummins BTA engines and probably a ZF 280A trans with 7 degree down angle. I plan on buying an aluminum angle just like the one in there now and eitherr bolting or welding aluminum pieces on the angles to accept the new mounts. I would then drill to pick up the exixting threaded holes in the stringer plates and Awlgrip the new aluminum assemblies. I will not switch to dripless seals. If they fail it is bad and the 2 bolt deal that Hatteras uses works great. Why would you ever want to spend money when what you have works great. Our shafte are Aquamet 22 at 13/4" so we are OK. I would like to use our 5" exhaust and there Is a guy in Ventura Cal. (that makes a lovely exhaust system that doesn't send all the water through the exhaust. This makes a 5" exhaust system work fine. Here is a link to his site.
http://www.SBMar.com

[jim rosenthal]

Jack, a couple of things:

1) I like the PSS seals. I have had no trouble with them. The originals are fine if properly set up and maintained. Esp with Gore-Tex packing in them.

2) Fuel filters: well I don't like the Racors. Get the Fleetguard system from Tony Athens, they are fantastic. Lots of satisfied users of them on this forum.

3) In order to meet Cummins' specs and have them sign off on the install, you need to pay attention to the distance between the centerline of the turbocharger and the waterline- I think it has to be at least twelve inches. I know on a 36C Series 1 that a custom riser has to be made up. (Tom Slane can tell you more, he has had these made up for all the 36s he has done). Also you have to vent the header tank back to the turbo, I think it is, to avoid airlocking the freshwater side of the cooling system because with a downangle gear the turbo is higher than the header tank, or something like that. I will try to find out details on all this.

4) You WILL need a 2" seawater intake. It may be in a different place than where it is now! On Blue Note we had already changed this for the Caterpillars, so I think it doesn't have to move.

5) Did you say you will be OK with 5" exhausts? I hope so. Changing them out is expensive and time-consuming. They are doing that, now.

I can't think of anything else right now. You will get install drawings or DVDs with the engines, etc, and a list of what they check on the install inspection and sea trial. There is also an extended warranty offered which is worth getting- I think it's four years and/or 2000 hrs.

[dsharp]

http://marine.cummins.com/public_cum...Id=13&menuId=1 this should get you close on your engine beds. The width should be pretty much standard. Diesels usually set on some type of flex-mount. You will need to make up fuel return manifold. 1 1/2 aquamet 22 will be plenty strong. Should make a very nice installation. You may want to plan on some sound deadening if you have motorboxes. Sometimes you have to watch for the starters hitting on the stringers depending on the engine type. Starters are usually about 2x larger.

[Jackman]

Wow! Lots of things to adress here....I'll get to a few but I don't want the boss to walk by and see me or I'll need to apply for a job at Sam's!

Jim,

My dad set me up with goretex packing last year (we just did the shaft logs from last years repower. I guess if you see nothing wrong with them, I'll keep the current ones. That means all I have to do on the outside of the boat is replace the inner cutlass bearings, closest to the tranny and maybe repack the stuffing boxes if I decide to send the shafts out to a machinist and make sure they're balanced and true, but I think they're fine no obvious wear patterns on the old outer cutlass bearings and no wierd noises.

I'll try to get ahold of Tony for the filtering system you suggested.

The engines will be sitting pretty high in they're bays since on my 32 the engines don't sit under a salon floor. I originally had 8" risers on the 454's but probably did not need anything that high. I'll make the measurement, guess I'll have to wait until they are in the boat. I will also have the vernaone muffler inline, which tony said was fine with these engines. He said he's even done them with 4.5". Once they're up and running I'll just make sure the backpressure is not above 2"of Hg.

The 2' intakes will be put in place. I am stopping down at Tolchester Marine to examine a 32 that he repowered and finished last fall. I will see where he put them. Why can't you just run a shields hose from the current spot to the engine raw water intake? Why must you move them? I will, but just asking why.

The exhaust was a pain in the but! Just did it last year with the heavy duty reinforced shields hose at 5'. Tony said it would be fine. He actually lists 5' in his specs for Got Bait, the Hat he repowered.

Maynard and Akyla, I figured that for the mounts...Which is why I'm stopping in to see a repower on a Hat like mine.. Maybe take some measurements and get a guy I know to make them. This part I am going to make a priority early. I want it taken care of first.

Starman,

The alminum rails have one or two spots where they look pitted. Overall they look great. The last repower we replaced all of the bolts to the stringers because the heads were corroded so bad it looked like I'd never get them out if I had to do it again. Same for the 454 engine mounts, they were eplaced as well from crusader. Is there anything holding the aluminum rails down besides the bolts like sealant or epoxy? They didn't seem to budge even with all of the old bolts out!

Gotta go...the boss is due in. I'll check at lunch!

[Maynard Rupp]

Wow, it sure seems like a lot of us are planning on a re-power. It probably is prompted by the ethanol thing. Here is what I see as the major concerns.
1). Engine mount rails. All you need is a new piece of the same size aluminum channel. The real question here is where to attach the plates that go between the rails and the engine. They might be able to be bolted in place instead of heli-arc welded. We might be able to modify our existing system.(Good luck with that one).
2). Exhaust system. Starboard marine has the solution that will allow the use of our current 5" exhaust and mufflers. I don't know the cost yet. Our Crusaders have 12" risers so I am sure that the Cummins diesels will need a similar system.
3). Why are we using down angle gearboxes? The Crusaders didn't have that and seemed to fit fine. Wouldn't that cure the header tank problem? :
4). Water intakes. I guess the 2" groco strainers are huge and costly. I am told that you can install a wedge pickup that has a correct and self cleaning screen outside. No need for anything except the ball valve shutoff inside the boat. i saw these on a Bertram that had installed QSM 11 Cummins. The look OK and seem to work fine. The guy liked them so much he removed all his Groco strainers and changed all his water pickups to those wedges. he loves them.
5). Logistics. Getting the old out and the new in. This is a bigger problem for us convertable owners than the 32 Hat guys. My Crusaders will have to have the exhausts removed on at least one side to get through the door. Then there is the yard bill and so on.

[34Hatt]

Jackman

I went with new aluminum rails mine where Nasty. If the look good I would use them. You can see mine at http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/ajxne/Eotl/Engines.html
If Tony says 5" is o.k then it is I would use it if said O.K.
I used racor but I also had them already. The fleetguards are nice I just don't believe you need a Bulk filter you tanks should be clean the days of slug and crap from diesel is controllable.
I went with PSS and love them yes if they fail its bad the bellows is the only way they can fail so its like if a hose goes on a regular set up.

Maynard
You have V8s they are not as high or long, with out a downangle the top of the motor would be through your floor. I had a set of 5 degree and it was not enough I had to go with 10 degree. Also Cummins only allows a 10-15 degree running angle. Don't rember exact # but it works out that it need to be almost level at rest. That I why as Dr Jim said about the water line to the turbo a 36C with a 10 degree downangle the front of the engine is lower then the turbo so they add the line so that it does not have a air lock problem at the turbo. Mine did not have this problem front was still a hair higher.