A "Hatteras" tug boat (few were built)

[spartonboat1]

Bill: Thanks for the update on that story...I obviously had some details wrong, but I did not know there were survivors.

As the owner of a large wooden boat (pre-Hatt), I know some wood boat terms one of which is the "devil" seam. This is the very lowest seams where caulk is packed below the lowest plank at the keek. Because it is so low and difficult to reach it is the yard workers "devil" to reach. From it comes the terms "devil to pay", because hammering the caulk into the seam is called "paying" a seam. Also, if you drown or dive deep you are "between the devil (seam) and the deep blue sea".

So yes, I certainly agree, one cannot be too careful...my primary reason for a Hatt- it is grandchild and great-grandparent safe.

There are some experienced divers on this site whom I know are concerned about safety. By pure happenstance, I have arrived in Mackinaw City, MI on the same hour, twice within the last three years, when a diver had drowned, while diving on the (1967?) wreck of the 650' ore carrier Cedarville. She is only 60' below the surface.

The first time, the Sheriff's Patrol Boat went by us at high speed out of the Mack City harbor headed to the site to recover the body, returning with a black body bag- "that can't be good". That was in 2004 I think. This summer, 2006, the new cutter Mackinaw was hovering over the Cederville site for a time, as we went by. Later I learned again, it was a rescue (too late) operation for a drowned diver. I belive that in both cases the divers ran out of air!! That's all that is between you and life and death, so you would think that well functioning breathing apparatus with adequate capacity would be a high concern.

As best I can, I attempt to operate safely!

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey man-- A lot of divers dont realize that when you are in water at about 40F,as in the straits at 60+ feet you can experience regulator freezing. Then its just about lites out unless you carry a spare pony bottle.
From Mak city to Georgian bay and North Channel and back to Escanaba are some of my favorite cruising grounds. I especially like Fayette state park on the Garden peninsula. If youre not familiar with it google it. Very remote with nothing more than a nice dock-no electric or water. Thats an old iron smelting ghost town. In the early 60s we used to go there by boat before it was a state park. I remember my gramps captain and I walking a trail and he bent over and picked up a flint arrowhead and gave it to me. I wonder whatever became of it. Not to sound morbid, but its in my will to have my ashes dropped in the water there. Illegal, but who gives a shit.
My dads family was from Door county, and thats where he bought the Roamer in '73. After the tug deal I brought her down here. Next summer will mark34 years on her. The 58 Hatt is for sale cheap--pass it on. Anything over 80K and you get 5%. Thanks for letting me spiel. Bill Stephan

[Genesis]

Just to set the record straight (as a diver)

There are two kinds of freezes - an external regulator freeze and an internal one.

An external freeze occurs when you have a balanced, unsealed regulator (many piston style ones such as Scubapro) and the balance chamber gets ice in it, jamming the piston. This happens because as air expands it cools (a LOT!) and in cold water it cools enough to freeze the water. This causes the pressure in the second stage hose to RISE (the valve does not close; it does not jam closed because there is no cooling unless there is airflow, and that only happens when the valve is open), which causes a freeflow.

This is a vicious circle because once it starts to freeflow even more air goes through the reg and makes it freeze MORE solid!

What many inexperienced divers do not realize is that you can breathe even a violently freeflowing regulator without a problem. Just breathe normally - nothing bad happens other than a lot of bubbles and noise. Yes, your gas will be exhausted fast if you just let that go, but that's not your only option. You can shut the tank valve and then crack it to take a breath, rolling it closed between, and save a LOT of the gas. Between that and just breathing it unless you have a deco obligation you can basically always make a normal ascent. (Now you know why being able to reach your valve is a critical thing!) Even the most violent of freeflows like this will give you a minute or more of gas assuming you started with 1000 psi or so (which you should have if you're on the bottom); ergo, there's more than enough time for a reasonably-close-to-normal ascent.

The second kind of freeze is INTERNAL. Same deal EXCEPT it can happen to ANY (even a sealed) regulator. This occurs because you got a bad fill with air that has too much moisture in it. The moisture literally freezes as the gas passes through the inside passages in the reg and binds up the mechanism. Same basic thing happens - you get a massive freeflow.

The most common provocation for both is extremely high demand from the reg; e.g. breathing in while at the same time hitting the BC inflator and drysuit inflator buttons, because that generates the maximum cooling effect.

There are also ways to have it happen on the surface, but those are typically only a problem if you're diving in cold AIR (air temps near or below freezing); in that case breathing the reg on the surface is a very bad idea as the surface air can freeze up the second stage (this can't happen underwater because the water temperature must always be at or over 32F, of course, or its ice!)

If you are doing decompression or penetration diving you should have twins on your back with TWO first stages. If one freezes turn it off and breathe the other reg until it thaws (which it will in a minute or so.) A freeze on a twinset is a severe annoyance, but is not really much of a threat at all, and doesn't even normally call for an abort to the dive.

For dives in cold water (under 50F or so is considered "cold") you want sealed first stages to mitigate this risk (such as the DS4 made by Apeks) and you ALSO need to make damn sure the facility filling your tanks has adequate air quality - the dewpoint should be -50F OR LOWER to prevent this problem. Not coincidentally, -50F is also the minimum dewpoint for the filter chemicals to be acceptably active, so if you've got gas that is more moist than this in your tanks it is probably also loaded with hydrocarbons - and those are REAL narcotic! Nothing like being intoxicated when something goes wrong to add to the accident chain!

In either case if you get killed its due to panic - there is no actual emergency with a frozen reg; its a severe inconvenience, but not a life-threatening emergency.

At least it shouldn't be.

[thoward]

Scubapro's MK25 has (TIS) which is thermal insulating system to combat freeze ups. We had some upwellings down here this year that got in the 50s (heard rumors of mid 40s) so you never know where you will find the cold water.

[(Nobody You Know)]

She layed on her side and since all the doors were open she swamped and sank in 15 seconds, with my dad in the engine room. He was the only crewman lost, and never recovered.

Bill,

I am very sorry to hear about the tradgic loss your family incurred. No doubt that old Roamer is a prized posession with lots of memories. Her flags still fly!

Capt'n Bill

[yachtsmanbill]

Thanks Cap-- That whole deal caused an immeasurable clash in the family that hasnt healed yet. I guess that the previous post to this thred (Thanks for the info Karl! ) proves that no matter what the gas saturation level is, that blood is thicker than nitogen.
I DID learn and never had to use it tho, that a controlled free flowing regulator ascent is not a problem as long as you "sip" the reg. A lot of open water lake divers around here think that an open wreck dive qualifies you as penetration tech/wreck diver.They become 1 dive EXPERTS! Get in to a wreck, dis- oriented, one marginal lite and the reg freezes and what happens next; panic. It only takes once. I do hold a penetration/cave entry endorsement and wouldnt even consider it without a detailed , well discussed dive plan and a million questions to the dive master since it has been over a year since my last wreck dive. I am strictly a recreational diver and like to swim with the fishies. 200 foot tri-mix dives to set explosives doesnt do a thing for me. I have more interest in jumping out of a plane after drinking four cups of coffee and eating a half a dozen White Castles. I can spend all day diving a 50 foot reef playing with the eight legged guys, and not have to be SO concerned with tables and deco times etc. Although as a diver you need to be aware of these, being a SEAL wannabe to me is akin to wanting to be a space shuttle pilot. Thats kinda like driving a 40 foot boat or towing a 5000 ton dead ship with 2000 horsepower under the palm of your hand. Apples and watermellons

If any of you consider yourselves to be EXPERTS at anything, that means you wrote the book and can never learn anything else. Its so sad that I encounter EXPERTS all the time. I just nod pleasantly to their face and picture them bent over a sawhoarse with a great dane mounting them and their wives' camera rolling. The only difference is, the wife IS an expert in emasculating her male. Dont forget to review the updated navy tables! ws