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  1. #21

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    UPDATE 4-26-20:

    As soon as the "Customer Experience Manager" at Summit Appliances saw a photograph of how the unit was installed he said, "I can tell you right off the bat that the problem is the installation and the panel installed on the door."

    Unfortunately moving the refrigerator into the middle of the galley floor and letting it function there for several days did nothing to improve its performance.

    I wish he had been correct; I could have worked with that...

    When moving the unit to the middle of the room didn't correct the problem he said, "The cooling system could have been compromised already because the unit was built in when it is not meant for this application." That might be correct...but the unit has no problem lowering the temperature in the box...it certainly seems like a control problem to me.

    I asked him for a schematic that shows the circulating fan that exists in this unit and his response was the one I already have was all that they have. I said that my experience in manufacturing medical and radio broadcast equipment made me believe that somewhere there was a wiring diagram or schematic for this unit with the circulating fan (and perhaps other components that we can’t see that could be causing problems). I asked if he could check with the folks in Slovenia where the unit was manufactured. His response was that this model had been discontinued (after several folks at their company had said that it was the same as the current model FFAR10), but that he would try.

    I got a response from the "Customer Experience Manager" that the factory said that the schematic that does't not show the circulating fan [and who knows what else] was all that the factory had. He said that our model has been discontinued.

    To my surprise, he said that he realizes that we have already had multiple thermostats in the unit, but that perhaps we should try another...and he is sending one at no charge. (It sounds to me as though he had a conversation or two with knowledgeable folks at his company and no one could figure out any other probabilities.)

    So, I await the arrival of thermostat #4. After installation, I will report the results and if need be, I will move forward with some of the other suggestions made by other forum members.

    Thanks for your help and patience! The saga continues...

    Nick
    1984 53' Extended Deckhouse
    "Laissez Faire"
    Delivered 1-1-86 (per Sam's)
    Hull #CN737
    Sausalito, CA

  2. #22

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Update: 5-11-20

    The 4th thermostat came from the manufacturer. It was installed and performed just as the previous ones have, with the refrigerator cooling down into the mid-20s(F) before we intervene and either whack the thermostat with a screwdriver handle or just turn the unit off for a while.

    I tried the suggestions Meteor64 made - both disconnecting the wire coming down to the compressor relay from the thermostat (the compressor stopped immediately) and whacking the relay in case it was stuck (no response).

    I have checked with Danfoss, the manufacturer of the thermostat and the "cut-out" (compressor off) temperature range for the model thermostat that the refrigerator manufacturer says is the correct is between 17.6(F) and -14.8(F). When I pointed out to Summit that this seems pretty darn cold for a refrigerator, they said that the capillary tube senses the temperature of the evaporator plate and not the air temperature inside the fridge.

    OK, so I have learned something...

    So, now I have to figure out how to find where the other end of the thermostat capillary tube is supposed to be in contact with the evaporator plate and if it makes the contact it is supposed to.

    (I am getting more and more tempted to get a line voltage thermostat that would sit inside the refrigerator, sense the air temp and turn the compressor on and off. If anyone has any experience with a thermostat that would work in this application, I would be interested in hearing about it. But I suppose that I should disassemble the interior of the fridge a bit more and see if I can locate the intended contact point between the thermostat capillary tube and the evaporator plate.)

    Nick
    1984 53' Extended Deckhouse
    "Laissez Faire"
    Delivered 1-1-86 (per Sam's)
    Hull #CN737
    Sausalito, CA

  3. #23

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick in Manitou View Post
    Update: 5-11-20

    The 4th thermostat came from the manufacturer. It was installed and performed just as the previous ones have, with the refrigerator cooling down into the mid-20s(F) before we intervene and either whack the thermostat with a screwdriver handle or just turn the unit off for a while.

    I tried the suggestions Meteor64 made - both disconnecting the wire coming down to the compressor relay from the thermostat (the compressor stopped immediately) and whacking the relay in case it was stuck (no response).

    I have checked with Danfoss, the manufacturer of the thermostat and the "cut-out" (compressor off) temperature range for the model thermostat that the refrigerator manufacturer says is the correct is between 17.6(F) and -14.8(F). When I pointed out to Summit that this seems pretty darn cold for a refrigerator, they said that the capillary tube senses the temperature of the evaporator plate and not the air temperature inside the fridge.

    OK, so I have learned something...

    So, now I have to figure out how to find where the other end of the thermostat capillary tube is supposed to be in contact with the evaporator plate and if it makes the contact it is supposed to.

    (I am getting more and more tempted to get a line voltage thermostat that would sit inside the refrigerator, sense the air temp and turn the compressor on and off. If anyone has any experience with a thermostat that would work in this application, I would be interested in hearing about it. But I suppose that I should disassemble the interior of the fridge a bit more and see if I can locate the intended contact point between the thermostat capillary tube and the evaporator plate.)

    Nick
    My walk-in cooler at my store has a line voltage thermostat on the wall. It looks like this:

    https://www.grainger.com/product/WHI...ermostat-1RC43
    Sky Cheney
    1985 53EDMY, Hull #CN759, "Rebecca"
    ELYC on White Lake--Montague, MI

  4. #24

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Sky,

    That thermostat looks like it might work if I don't succeed in getting the one now in the unit to work as it is supposed to by sensing the temperature of the evaporator plate.

    I have made a note of the one you suggested!

    Thanks!
    Nick
    1984 53' Extended Deckhouse
    "Laissez Faire"
    Delivered 1-1-86 (per Sam's)
    Hull #CN737
    Sausalito, CA

  5. #25

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Update 6-1-20:

    It turns out that the refrigerator is assembled such that one can't access the evaporator plate without taking a Sawzall to the case...you cant access it from the interior (I unscrewed everything that had screws in it!) and you can't access it from the back as the case seems to be spot-welded together.

    The previous owner had told us that they had problems with it and just put up with it. They purchased the refrigerator new and I bet that after they had it installed and the galley customized and custom panels attached to the fridge door, they just couldn't face the hassle of taking things all apart to replace the unit - even if it was defective from the start. I don't know what else it could be other than that the tubing that conducts the capillary tube to its position against the evaporator plate must be improperly positioned. That MUST be it. (Maybe...)

    The unit is designed to be in its cooling cycle for a while and then once it thinks it is cold enough, the compressor turns off and the interior surfaces that have had frost build up on them have a chance to warm up, the frost melts off and drains out and the cycle starts again eventually. (They call this "Auto Defrost".) This period of time where the system is not on is important for the defrosting of the cooling surface. When I tried to use the thermostat with the capillary tube within the interior of the refrigerator, the time between cooling cycles was not long enough and very quickly frost built up enough that the unit was running constantly and not getting very cold. I assume that using a thermostat that I would mount through the wall of the unit would cause the same frosting-up issue.

    So the situation now is that although I was told by the folks who made the unit that the thermostat was not adjustable...but because I am stubborn, I tried to adjust it anyway and have succeeded to an extent. The unit goes below freezing, but not for long enough to freeze much of the contents...and then it warms up more than we would like for it to, but so far we have not had any issues of spoilage.

    I may try fiddling with another adjustment screw I see inside the thermostat, just in case it changes the cut-in temperature, but supposedly that is permanently set on this model of thermostat.

    So the biggest lesson I have learned through this effort is that the thermostat is supposed to sense the temperature at the evaporator plate and not within the interior compartment of the refrigerator...and that the tech support people although well meaning don't always have a clue about how their products work.

    Nick
    1984 53' Extended Deckhouse
    "Laissez Faire"
    Delivered 1-1-86 (per Sam's)
    Hull #CN737
    Sausalito, CA

  6. #26

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Bypass the current stat , drill a hole in the side of the unit and install a line voltage stat. Johnson Controls makes nice digital ones along with the analog type too. Oh and manually defrost as needed........Pat

  7. #27

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Skycheney and Doc G have both suggested thermostats that would sense the internal temperature of the refrigerator and cycle it as needed...

    My impression from running the refrigerator with the capillary tube within the conditioned space of the refrigerator instead of inside the wall of the unit is that within a day the interior back wall frosts up to a point where the unit runs continuously and needs to be defrosted. I think that the basic design of this unit precludes effective use of that sort of thermostat. Perhaps if we had the boat in Arizona...

    Nick
    1984 53' Extended Deckhouse
    "Laissez Faire"
    Delivered 1-1-86 (per Sam's)
    Hull #CN737
    Sausalito, CA

  8. #28

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    Hello Nick, I'm just going to throw this out there. Have you thought about an external timer that would cycle the unit, two hours on, one hour off setup. Its a work around but it may work and stop the head scratching. My other suggestion is a one way boat trip.

    Walt Hoover

  9. #29

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    How about a line voltage digital programmable thermostat. You can set the cut in and cut out temps independently. I would guess you would mount The thermostat on the back wall where frost builds up. There the compressor would not cut in till frost has melted.

    Amazon about $35
    Thanks,

    Tony

    2008 Cheoy Lee Bravo 78 "Bella Sophia"
    1989 78' Hatteras CPMY #311 "Bella Sophia" (sold)
    2007 Everglades 290cc “Bada Bing” (sold)
    2006 Advanced Outdoors 28cc (sold)
    2003 Melges 24 "Bada Bing" (sold)
    2023 HCB 42 “Bada Bing”

  10. #30

    Re: Refrigerator...Scratching My Head...

    I cant believe how long this has been going on. I'd have had it at the dumps or the manufacturer headquarters already.
    Scott
    41C117 "Hattatude"
    Port Canaveral Florida.


    Marine Electronics and Electrical Products Distributor.

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