Tipping Your Hatt

[Freeebird]

Until this past Monday, I never really thought about it, but now I find myself wondering what it would take to turn your bottom paint towards the sky if you are broadsided while dead in the water. This will obviously vary from one model to the other, but I was just curious.

Is there some sort of mathematical formula, or would Hatteras have such information?

[oscarvan]

Is there some sort of mathematical formula, or would Hatteras have such information?

Yes and yes. A naval architect can calculate a variety of stability parameters. Depending on design criteria they get different emphasis. One extreme being the self righting life boat, on the other end some of the abominations we see on YW. The more vertical volume with the least amount of fiberglass the less seaworthy it gets. Again, by design.

So Hargrave knew the numbers and the engineers at Hatteras should have the files.

My knowledge of power boat stability is a lot less than about sailboat stability. Most halfway decently designed sailboats have positive stability up to around 120º. After that it gets fuzzy, but with THAT much lead under you (30-40-50% of displacement) it will end up right side up again at some point. IF, and that's the key, you can keep the water out.

At this point I'm guessing, but I would think based on hull shape and weight distribution a Hatt can take a knockdown to 90º and come back up. There's no keel, but there is 10K pound of heavy metal in there, and although the arm is a lot shorter than on a sailboat keel, it is in the bottom of the boat. Again though, keeping the water out is going to be the key. Don't know if the windows can take being 3 feet under water, that's a lot of pressure.

There is one more thing and that is momentum. If you're rolling sideways off a monster vertical wave three times taller than your beam, the story changes, a lot. And THAT's the kind of conditions you don't want to take these boats into.

Having read your story I understand your emotions on the subject. LOL. Been there done that. I can tell you that 45º seems like a lot more when you're in it. So, still guessing it will take that nicely. As long as the big windows stay out of the water you should be OK and on a large low SF/Convertible cockpit the door to the cabin has to stay dry, or be substantial in design, and all deck hatches need to be tight. You need to be able to ship a bunch of water back there and have it drain out not in when you come back up. Also important if you ship a ton of water from a following breaker. Also make sure the little windows are closed and here's where the case for HD metal ones comes in......

I suspect more knowledgeable people will add to this.

[Pascal]

Before the windows and side doors even get wet, once the ER intakes and the various blower holes get in the water, it will be game over. Massive flooding on one side... boat probably won’t turtle at least right away but makes little difference.

If dead in rough water, you have to find a way to keep the bow in the waves. Dropping anchor and all the rose will help creating drag

[rustybucket]

We always carry a drouge sea anchor setup. We have 5 or 6 smaller sea anchors 3'ish setup to daisy chain together, clip an anchor (or something heavy) to the last one and drop them overboard cleated to the bow.

In rough water drift fishing we use them quite often to keep the boat from spinning and keep you out of a beam sea. When fishing we often tie them off to the transom for easier recovery.

If I were ever dead in the water in rough seas too deep to drop anchor I would deploy the sea anchors. Even if it weren't rough enough to sink you it sure makes it a lot more comfortable drift.

[Freeebird]

Before the windows and side doors even get wet, once the ER intakes and the various blower holes get in the water, it will be game over. Massive flooding on one side... boat probably won’t turtle at least right away but makes little difference.

If dead in rough water, you have to find a way to keep the bow in the waves. Dropping anchor and all the rose will help creating drag

That’s why I radioed the Coasties when we lost an engine and the high water alarm sounded. Our situation was unique in that we were dealing with very steep waves and an ice covered deck. I knew the anchor would help, even if it didn’t set, but getting to it and deploying it under those conditions wasn’t worth the risk. The raft was on the forward deck as well.

That’s a GREAT argument for a dash mounted windless and all chain where everything can be done from the bridge. The owner told me he didn’t have any issues with me posting specifics, so I’ll do a little copy and paste of my account here in a minute. Definitely an intense situation, and I’ve since learned of a number of fatalities in that are where the Potomac dumps into the Chesapeake.

[Freeebird]

Here’s the story I shared elsewhere. The high water alarm was the result of loose grounds on BOTH battery banks. The port side terminals were finger tight. I’d love to have a little talk with whoever installed the batteries. Those loose grounds wreaked havoc on all the DC systems including the electronics. Here’s the story...

Last day of delivering a 46’ Hatteras convertible from Hilton Head to Annapolis turned into one to remember. Trip was perfect until that point, then it all went to hell. Here’s the story from yesterday.

It was a balmy 25 degrees in Deltaville with strong north winds, pretty much like yesterday but stronger. Started out on plane at 20MPH until we got closer to the middle of the bay. That’s when things changed.

Dropped down to just above hull speed to find a happy spot as full plane was beating us up pretty good. After a while, seas starting increasing... A BUNCH.

“I’m counting on you to determine this is safe”.

“No worries, it’s a Hatteras. It’s uncomfortable but perfectly safe.”

The seas continued to build to the point I knew I had to get the bow up, so I pushed the throttles up to sorta kinda planing and no tabs. It was happy there... for a while.

Things would be relatively comfortable, then we would hit these large groups of waves that had to be in the 6-8’ range. In short, it was brutal. We’re talking stand up, hold on with both hands kind of brutal. That’s why no video. Much to my dismay, I heard the engines come out of synch, but much to my relief, they came back up and settled down... for a few minutes. That’s when we lost an engine. I’m like, this is NOT good.

Running on one engine in water like that is a handful. Hearing the high water bilge alarm sound at about the same time is... well, something special. I could just see that starboard engine underwater, so I sent the owner below to take a look. That’s when I radioed the Coast Guard and let them know we had a potentially dangerous situation. As I was talking to them, we lost the port engine.

Sitting sideways in seas like that is unnerving to say the least. Dangerous to say the most. We were doing some sideways surfing. I gave the Coasties all our information, and they said they had an asset en route. We put on our life vests, set the EPIRB in the cockpit, and waited... and waited... and waited. We actually lost the port outrigger in that big water. I can only guess it got covered with ice (like everything else) and couldn’t handle the strain. Lost the deck cap on the anchor locker too.

I decided to get back up on the bridge as communicating with the handheld VHF wasn’t cutting it. I hit the starter on the port engine, and it fired right up. It did that once earlier but only ran a few minutes. Oh yeah, we lost the generator too.

I tried the starboard and got nothing, but I noted low voltage. With that, I hit the parallel switch, and the starboard came to life. We radioed the Coasties to let them know we were once again under power, but we weren’t sure for how long.

By that time, they had a visual on us and offered to escort us to the closest marina. We gladly accepted. There were actually two boats involved as we entered the Potomac River... the big RIB who escorted us in, then a smaller one who would lead us into the marina. For whatever reason, the larger vessel followed us into the marina.

We all tied up, talked about how nasty it was out there, thanked them profusely, and then were given a safety inspection. I pretty much expected that but was fine with it. Everything was in order, so we exchanged more pleasantries and watched them depart.

That’s when I got on the phone with my fellow Hatteras owner and mechanical guru, Scott Bickwid. He told me a few things to troubleshoot which included ground wires. Long story short (no pun intended), that turned out to be the issue. It’s too late to go anywhere, so we’re staying put until morning. It’s supposed to be a bit calmer then, and we’ll have a 75 mile run to our final destination.

I wasn’t really scared when we were out there, but I did consider sending my son a “just in case” text. I’m just glad we didn’t end up in the water. All in all, it was a very exciting day, but not one I would care to repeat. It felt really good to be on land again.

Next up comes cleaning up the interior of the boat which looks like a war zone.

[oscarvan]

Before the windows and side doors even get wet, once the ER intakes and the various blower holes get in the water, it will be game over. Massive flooding on one side

Ah, forgot about those (my lack of large powerboat experience) ..... I do know that some yachts get their engine room air much higher up in the structure, sometimes amplified with fans.... but that would require some major redecorating. Be nice to get rid of those big holes in the side of the hull though. Food for thought. Does anyone know the CFM requirement for each engine room?

Drogues just added to my list.

As far as crossing the mouth of the Potomac, depending on conditions there's a case to be made for going up Tangier sound.

[Pascal]

Quite a day... glad it turned out ok. My worry when running in marginal conditions is always the what if. It can do and it will go downhill very quickly.

Years ago I remember a tough run up the bay in the johnson 70 i was running back then. The last 20/25 miles at night past Deltaville into Reedville we’re pretty bad. How did I wish for a hatteras hull instead of the bloated up bow of the Johnson. Then coming into Reedville at night. Couldn’t understand a word from the watermen running the marina !

I windlass controls are the helm a must. If running wires is too difficult, Lewmar has a wireless control that works pretty well. Not too expensive either

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Thanks for posting the story. First, glad you all were safe. Second, the story is educational. Often, we think we are prepared for the worst only to learn otherwise. Good job keeping it together.

[Freeebird]

One thing I have since learned is, marine forecasts in that area are pretty much useless. I would have never headed out into something like that intentionally, but the forecast for that day was the same as for the day before. 2' seas and 20-25 knot winds. It was bumpy on Sunday, but nothing we couldn't run on plane comfortably.

I'm not one to over-exaggerate heights, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if we weren't in a 10 footer or two, maybe more. They were breaking in over 60' of water. It went to hell so quickly that turning around wasn't an option. We had made it through the worst at that point when we lost power. Otherwise, I really don't think we would have had an issue pressing on.

One of the funnier aspects of this was talking to the lady the next morning who runs the marina. It was closed when we came in, so we made ourselves at home. When we walked up to the office the next morning, she told me she had listened to the whole thing on VHF and commended me for being calm, clear, and precise. She told me a tug Captain was also listening in and couldn't believe a pleasure boat was out in that crap. Like I told her, we didn't mean to be, it just sort of found us. Seems he had his hands full with the tug. What was funny was a marina resident had asked her what the deal was on the sportfish on the dock. I guess it did look kinda funny seeing a sportfish being escorted to the dock by two CG boats with blue lights flashing and then boarding it afterward.

Lake Michigan had handed me the biggest surprise of my boating career several years ago, but this one raised the bar. Hopefully it will remain in first place until I cross over into that big blue water in the sky.