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  1. #1

    DC Electrical Upgrade

    I'm a little nervous coming out electrically here, so to speak, so go easy on me. I am planning a modest upgrade to our battery and charging system. I have attached a diagram that shows approximately where things are and will be located in the engine room of our 43DC.

    The inverter set up is a little different than most. I have one duplex outlet next to the refrigerator. To use the inverter, you physically plug in what you want to use. This system is fine with me. We need nothing more complicated. It is currently used for the refrigerator while under way, a coffee pot, or a microwave, or a toaster oven. It was previously hooked up to the single 8D for the thruster and windlass. We promptly fried that battery and the alternator on the port side on our trip up here. Not enough capacity and no way to monitor it. Eventually we may go to a 12 volt refrigerator to reduce the load on the inverter.

    In the illustrated set-up, we would have one AGM house bank with a modest capacity of 440ah and a battery monitor to keep track of usage. All DC loads except the thruster (well, half of the thruster as it combines with this bank for 24 volts), windlass and starboard starter would be hooked to this bank. This bank would be charged off the new 120 amp externally regulated Balmer alternator, derated by 15% so as not to overload the single 1/2" V-belt, and off the 60 amp leg of the Skylla charger. The alternator would be spinning at approximately 3150 rpm at our 1400 rpm cruise engine speed.

    The battery to aft would be a dedicated FLA starting battery for the starboard engine only and charged by the starboard engine alternator and the 3 amp leg off the Skylla charger. We have a combining solenoid for the starting and house banks should we draw down the house bank too far to start the port engine.

    The thruster/windlass battery would be an AGM 4D. AGM because it is really difficult to get to for maintenance. The minimum capacity required for the thruster is listed as 150ah in the manual. This battery would be charged off the port engine 120 amp alternator and off one leg of the existing Statpower 40 amp charger.

    For the next couple of years, we'll be fixing up the boat for our intended usage of cruising to Florida and the Bahamas when we retire. Maybe farther. Maybe further. Any suggestions on how to make this system better and/or simpler?

    New Electrical.jpg
    Robert
    MANCHIONEAL
    1973 43DC #365
    Mattox Creek, VA

  2. #2

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    When it comes to batteries I like redundancy.

    A separate charging battery for each engine and genset, charged by their respective alternator and a charger. Since your mains appear to be 12v like mines, it s pretty easy.

    I also like house to be separate from inverter, again for redundancy reasons. same for the thruster. Nowadays with LEDs you don’t need as big a house bank as you did in the past making it easier to set up. You could have a 24v Charger for the house and thruster bank. Inverter banks are usually charged with the inverter. All it takes is a 24v alternator on one of the mains to have a back up in case you loose the generator.
    Pascal
    Miami, FL
    1970 53 MY #325 Cummins 6CTAs
    2014 26' gaff rigged sloop
    2007 Sandbarhopper 13
    12' Westphal Cat boat

  3. #3

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    First question. Is it a marine inverter?

    Second question why 4 x 6 volt batteries? Are they start pr deep cycle by the way?

    Third question. Why the 1+1 charger and not the 3 bank ip44?

    Fourth question. Would you like to talk to a victron distributor and go over the design?

    Theres a few options you may want to consider as an alternative design.
    Scott
    41C117 "Hattatude"
    Port Canaveral Florida.


    Marine Electronics and Electrical Products Distributor.

  4. #4

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    I was cooking batteries when the boat was new so I made some changes/upgrades. That included temp sensors for the batteries, better battery ventilation, isolating charging to dedicated banks and a Balmar regulator on each alternator. The Balmar regulators are really slick with many programming options. Then you leave your shore chargers off when running and your batteries get a proper multistage charging profile with a float charge during extended runs. The problem for me is that they don't last very long and I have replaced them both almost yearly. I don't know if its my set up or they are inherently unreliable. YMMV.

    George
    Florida
    2002 Cabo 47
    MAN mechanical 800/8's

    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality"

  5. #5

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    Glad I only have a 31C, PO already added a Pro sport 20 Plus charger so added a House bank. Both engines have their own starting batteries, I added a Bep modular Switch set up. Also currently have a Aims inverter with a auto transfer switch, mostly for Fridge. At this stage a larger 120v Fridge / Freezer is in the plans with smaller being beverage only. I would probably through an isolator use both starting batteries for the thrusters, since they would be somewhat quick loads like starting and come back to full quicker. My initial plan was for extended time out on the Great Lakes, and now at some point the Great Loop. Didn't see generator in the diagram, adds yet another for of charging to keep batteries up. My plan now includes easialy adding solar as well when the time comes. But in the whole scheme of things, engine batteries for the engines, and the house bank for house related power needs.
    Attached Images

  6. #6

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    I have an 8K Westerbeke generator, but I didn't picture it because it isn't involved in the upgrade.

    Another scenario I've considered is making the thruster bank larger and hooking the inverter to it. Adding another shunt would allow it to be monitored by the SG200 as well. It's the scenario that makes the most sense in my mind, but I've been advised by someone who knows far more than me to just have one house bank. I've illustrated that set up below.

    New Electrical 2 house.jpg
    Robert
    MANCHIONEAL
    1973 43DC #365
    Mattox Creek, VA

  7. #7

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    Thrusters cause serious voltage drop when they run which will trigger the low voltage cut out on the inverter.

    And if that bank is also used for the windlass, after being in the hook generator off, using that bank for the inverter may cause it to be low when raising anchor.

    Having one house bank is good but having a dedicated inverter bank is even better. For instance do you want your bilge pumps performance and the visibility of your anchor light affected by your inverter running your fridge? I don’t
    Pascal
    Miami, FL
    1970 53 MY #325 Cummins 6CTAs
    2014 26' gaff rigged sloop
    2007 Sandbarhopper 13
    12' Westphal Cat boat

  8. #8

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    I see what you're saying. What I'm running up against is where to put the batteries. I've got these relatively large spaces outboard of the engines and they clearly used to be batteries there, but I love that space for working. It's part of the reason I didn't want V8's too. I'll have to think about that. I think you're right.
    Robert
    MANCHIONEAL
    1973 43DC #365
    Mattox Creek, VA

  9. #9

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    I use my house bank as my inverter bank. I also run the windlass off of that bank. And I have never had a low voltage issue like Pascal is describing. My thought is that if you have proper wire sizes and the right batteries, you won't have those issues. Of course, higher voltage means less amp draw so my 32v bank makes a difference there compared to a 12v or 24v bank.

    Also, I notice that the questions Scott asked in post #3 have not been addressed:

    "First question. Is it a marine inverter?

    Second question why 4 x 6 volt batteries? Are they start pr deep cycle by the way?

    Third question. Why the 1+1 charger and not the 3 bank ip44? "
    Last edited by SKYCHENEY; 12-17-2019 at 03:39 PM.
    Sky Cheney
    1985 53EDMY, Hull #CN759, "Rebecca"
    ELYC on White Lake--Montague, MI

  10. #10

    Re: DC Electrical Upgrade

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdur_Ln-9cE

    P
    lenty of videos and great information.

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