Chartering Rules

[rsmith]

US flagged Foreign built boats can be chartered but can not be inspected vessels carrying more than 6 or 12 pax depending on tonnage

Foreign flagged boats can only do bareboat

Something change? Because I got into some trouble years ago for running 6 pack charters with a 44 Striker

[Pascal]

Something change? Because I got into some trouble years ago for running 6 pack charters with a 44 Striker

Not afaik. As long as the foreign build boat is US flagged, you can run it as an uninspected charter with no more than 6 pax. I ran a Taiwan built Johnson 70 for 9’years, boarded on charter a few times. Dozens of Muts, Ferrettis, beneteau etc running six packs down here.

[krush]

This thread is about chartering rules. I don’t think that the captain citizenship is silly territory as if an owner hires a non US citizen to captain the boat, even on a crewed 6 pack charter, the documentation certificate will be void and the owner exposed to fines.

This may be pure semantics, but let us all be precise in our language. The use of "Captain" in this thread is presumed to mean USA Licensed Master (most likely of 100T). For one to hold a US Merchant Marine License, he/she must be a US citizen. By the way, there are many more licenses out there than just the "captain" 6pack or 100ton master of baiting fish and trolling threads.

A US Documented vessel may only be OWNED by a US Citizen. I've never heard that it may only be OPERATED by a US Citizen. However, if said operation requires a licensed officer (due to charter arrangement), then the "captain" will be a US Citizen (because it is not possible to have a licensed officer that is not a US Citizen).

However, I would like somebody to specifically show the law stating a US Citizen must OPERATE a US Documented vessel. For example, I have not seen anything that forbids a legal resident (non-citizen) from bareboat chartering and operating the vessel himself.

And in regards to the "captain" talk: I brush shoulders with a few guys with unlimited licenses, and it's really funny to hear them all call each other "Captain"*....../sarcasm


*I'll explicitly state this for the dense folks. NO, of course officers with unlimited licenses don't go around introducing themselves as "Capt John".

[Passages]

Correct, my son is an unlimited 3rd mate merchant mariner. No one on board refers to another by their title. They all know the pecking order and expect everyone to perform their assigned role.

[Freeebird]

Correct, my son is an unlimited 3rd mate merchant mariner. No one on board refers to another by their title. They all know the pecking order and expect everyone to perform their assigned role.

Love the new sig line, but you still have to call me Captain Bird.

[Pascal]

If you want to be “precise in our language” you should not “presume”. Many crewed charter boats (6 pax or less) are run by Captains holding an OUPV license. Perfectly legal under 100GT and no more than 6 pax

One does NOT need to be a US citizen to get an OUPV, you only need to be a US citizen if you want to get a Master

Yes, a non citizen can operate a USCG documented vessel but ONLY when the vessel is operated for recreation and if the documentation only shows “ Recreation”. This means a non citizen cannot run a documented boat on crewed charter

Now if the boat has a coastwise endorsement, it can not be run by a non citizen even for recreational purpose. This means the owner of a USCG documented boat with Coastwise endorsement can not hire a non US citizen for private cruises or even a delivery.

Again, only if the boat has a coastwise endorsement.

To be honest I ve never paid attention to this so I m not sure how many boats have a coastwise endorsement. I know the Lazzara 84 I run does, my Hatteras doesn’t.... I think you need to apply for it and the vessel must be US built and can not have been foreign flagged in the past. (Beyond this discussion)

Here is the back side of a USCG Documentatin Certificate with the citizenship restriction.

[krush]

If you want to be “precise in our language” you should not “presume”. Many crewed charter boats (6 pax or less) are run by Captains holding an OUPV license. Perfectly legal under 100GT and no more than 6 pax

One does NOT need to be a US citizen to get an OUPV, you only need to be a US citizen if you want to get a Master

...........

We are slowly honing down to get full clarity. However, the "precision" I speak of is still missing. An OUPV is NOT a license. As you stated, to have the Masters, one must be a citizen. Slightly nuanced difference, but there is a difference nonetheless. Thank you for showing the scan and clarifying the coastwise vs recreation differences.

The USCG checklist for ratings and endorsements simplifies much of this. There are two OUPV categories (as you said): All Waters requires citizenship, and restricted/limited OUPV.

Restricted/Limited Master & OUPV requirements: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/N...mc5_16_web.pdf
OUPV All waters: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/N...mc5_31_web.pdf


All checklists are available here: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/nmc/checklist/

And I guess all of these credentials allow one to be addressed as "Captain".

edit: on the All Waters OUPV Checklist, there is this note:

NOTE: OUPV, limited to undocumented vessels, may be issued to non U.S. Citizens. They will be drafted with the following limitation: “Limited to Uninspected Vessels Not Documented Under the Laws of the United States.” They will not include entry level ratings unless record of Permanent Resident Alien card provided. A Permanent Resident Alien card is the only acceptable document to issue entry level ratings to non-US Citizens.NOTE: An applicant, who speaks Spanish, but not English, may be issued an OUPV Restricted to Navigable Waters of the United States in the vicinity of Puerto Rico.

[Freeebird]

As I understand it, the Master only comes into play when running an inspected vessel. I never looked into all the in's and out's of citizenship requirements as it didn't concern me beyond the fact I was made in the USA. I never intended to run an inspected vessel, even though I was offered a job doing that. Too little money for too much aggravation.

As is the case with a bareboat charter, there is no legal requirement for me to be licensed at all if all I'm doing is delivering boats. It was all about certain insurance companies who require a 100T Master operate the boat. Some have required me to sign off on the fact the boat owner has sufficient expertise in operation to avoid the need to file a claim.

[Briankinley2004]

My understanding of a 6PAX is I can have 6 passengers and 3 crew. Thus I can film 5 women in their underwear on my deck while another person who technically did not pay to drive the corporations boat is pilot in command and another is the required coast guard "lookout' and the final passenger/crew member is live streaming the video to potential customers. This can legally be done off a kayak or a 300' ship as long as the coast guard hasn't inspected it and we are within the confines of the license of the captain. This is provided that myself and the "pilot in command" are both USCG licensed 6 PAX OUPV minimum
captains.

[Freeebird]

I'm pretty sure it's 299 feet max, and the kayak would have to be made in the USA.