Engine Issues

[Genesis]

... a PROPER rebuild always beats a crate motor.

The problem is GETTING a proper rebuild.

You are NOT going to get one from a marina. You need to pull those motors and find someone who will do it correctly, guarantee their work, and has the reputation and backing to stand behind it.

[mikep996]

Agree w/ Genesis

Find a machine shop that specializes in building competiton motors. They will have the expertise and the equipment necessary to ensure everything is at optimum spec when completed. For example...They will ensure that the cylinder bores will actually be ROUND when the engine is assembled! It may come as a surprise but factory motors' bores will be round only until the cylinder heads are installed. Unfortunately, you need those darned heads for the engine to run! But how, you ask, can the piston rings seal if the bores aren't round? Well... they can't! At least, not as well as they should.

When shipping is factored in, I would expect a rebuild of this sort to cost less than a crate (factory-new) motor. But it would probably vary considerably in different parts of the country. If you can do some of the accessory assembly yourself - starter, alternator, manifolds, etc., it would probably be a good bit cheaper. It shouldn't be hard to get a price quote from a machine shop.


Good Luck whatever you decide.

[Jackman]

Okay....I don't know what a rebuild costs but I will look into it. Meanwhile, I got info from a crusader dealer on the following:

New 8.1L MPI 496 Crusader with new hurth gears...the engine is ready to put in..totally assembled with all cooling lines alternators ect and manifolds and risers...the price per motor is 12,712 per engine. He claims a minimum of 20% increase in fuel economy and an increase in HP of about 55HP per side. Comes with a 3yr warrenty ect. The engine is said to mount right in the same configuration as my old 454's.

This is fuel injected as stated. I'm told, along with the fact that there are no longer LH and RH motors that Crusader also does not sell the 454 as carbed anymore, which is why he priced me on a 496. That means both new carbs I have can't be used as well as everything else associated with only the 454. So....it looks like I have two options thanks to all of your help....1) Rebuild the current engines and trannys or 2)bite the bullet and put in some new crusaders and reconfigure the boat to be a non-LH and RH boat. I guess I'll concentrate on trying to "patch up" my problems for the season by seeing if I can replace the top end parts to solve my immediate problem. If that doesn't work my boating season might be in jeopardy...We'll see probably this friday.

Gosh, I'd love to put a set of new Yanmars with tons of power but after talking with you guys and hearing that I really don't need it because of the size of my boat and then realizing that I'll be "sugar daddy" for my admiral for the next four years because she's going to University of Penn for Vet school in August...(she'll be bringing in no dough)..I better play it smart. I'll live vicariously through the other guys at my marina when I hear their diesels fire up and hear about their power and great milage. I guess I should concentrate on what is realistic at this point in time. Maybe when the Admiral gets out of vet school and she has a 200K school bill floating over my head but making enough to cover the payments I'll be able to "sneek in" a set of 60K diesels. There's also the lottery or maybe some really, really, really nice person will drop off a set of new Cummings or Yanmars at my doorstep in University City near Philly......

Thanks Guys! I'll keep you posted on the progress and if I have any issues I'll post or if you have anything to add please feel free to comment. Its definitely appreciated!

[jkp1]

There was a long article on a 31' Bertram which converted from gas to diesel.

For your situation though, I agree with others that the best bet would be to rebuild your current motors.

[Maynard Rupp]

I used to build engines for fuel dragsters and I would recommend you search out an engine shop that works on high performance engines. They tend to do a great job. Don't worry about the rotation as the only difference is the camshaft. send yours to a cam grinder for a regrind and nitriding. We have Crusaders in our '86 Hat 36 Convert. and they are great. We are in fresh water though. The new engines all turn the same way as an automobile. I hear that Warner makes a tranny that can be used continuously in reverse. They just flip the shifters around to make your props turn opposite. The oldr trans. could not be used continuously in reverse. At 2300 hours, you are surely due for an overhaul. The nocking noise could be from a cracked flexplate,( the plate between the engine and transmission). Good luck

[John F]

I'm a lurker here--have a B31, but I really like Hatts. This is a great board.

Figure out what's wrong with your 454s before you go further. They're known for weak oiling at the rockers, and now and then break rockers and then bend/break pushrods. I went through this about 150 hour ago. Compression was good and no oil leaks on the motors. I replaced the rocker and the 2 pushrods it took out, and they're still running great. When the rocker broke, the marine mechs. I talked to had all sorts of really bad scenarios, and pretty much recommended rebuilds. I was told that rocker oiling on 454s was a weak point by the mechs. at a local speed shop. When I told them I had broke a rocker in a 454, the speed shop mech. shrugged his shoulder, said no big deal, and explained the oiling problem. So...I second the speed shop advice.

I've heard mostly negative things about off-the-shelf remans., with the exception of merc. remans (supposedly good).

If you go for new gas motors, 496s are the only choice out there. Folks love 'em. I have a friend with an 2003 31 Tiara with 496s that runs great--but uses only slightly less fuel than my carbed 454s. Don't know about the new 6.0, but I like the torque of the big blocks and last time I asked neither merc. or crusader would release torque curves on the 6.0s or mercs stroker.

If you go diesels, the 240 Yannies will about duplicate your 454 performance, and the 6 cyl. Yannies or 6btas will better it.

Please post what you find out.

Again, thanks to the Hatt. guys--really interesting stuff. And Jim Rosenthal--if you see this, I think we live pretty close. I'm out of Kent Island, just south of the Kentmorr. 1969 Bertram 31 "Anna E."

John F.

[Jackman]

I have to agree with you. This is an awesome site.

I'm hoping its a push rod. I'll find out tonight or tomorrow. I think my plan is as follows....

1- Change the oil and filter and look for metal.

2- Remove valve covers and look at the top end...remove "busted" parts for replacement if I see any.

3- If I find bent ot busted pushed rods I'll probably replace all of them....maybe the rockers as well.

4- Put it back together and hope it works.

If this doesn't solve the problem my season is gone. Then I'll have to pull the boat and pull the engine for a rebuild.

[Jackman]

By the way...is the flexplate another name for the flywheel? I have the tranny out before on that engine and only remember seeing the flywheel between the tranny and engine.

[mikep996]

The "flexplate," frequently referred to in marine applications as the "damper plate," couples the engine and tranny. It has splined center fitting that engages the tranny and it bolts to the engine flywheel. Unlike a flexplate used in automotive engine/tranny connections, the damper plate has a series of coil springs in the plate - they look and operate like the springs in a clutch disc - to absorb shock in the system.

At idle A bad damper plate (broken springs) will frequently cause a noise like a coffee can full or rocks being shaken.

[mikep996]

I should have said, "unlike the flexplate used in automotive engine/AUTOMATIC tranny connections..."

Flexplates are not used in car manual trannys - clutch discs and pressure plates are.