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  1. #1

    New to Forum - advice

    Evening
    Stumbled across this forum the other day have spent hours reading and feel I have just scratched the surface, I posted this on yacht forum last week and Pascal (thanks) was kind enough to respond,

    While I am looking for nothing over 48" my bicycling partner is / could be in the 53-65 arena, and his/my criteria are the same
    here is what I posted
    Hi
    "New to forum and looking to purchase larger boat. Criteria:
    1. 42 to 53' Aft Cabin sundeck - Convertibles; double cabins have no interest
    2. Budget: $100.0 -$150.0 - would prefer $100.0 and put the balance intoupgrades or repair.
    3. Intended use - cruise East Coast; Bahamas; ICW occasional offshore; at thistime not looking to do the "loop". Not looking for long oceanpassage's
    4. Like "older" style -Hatteras; Viking; Tollycraft; DeFever mid80's; has to have covered sundeck
    5. Not naïve in regards to Maintenance; Dock fees; Repairs Insurance etc.
    6. Not looking to live aboard now or in future - but want to comfortable when on board.
    7. Experience - 30 years sailing. almost no motoring anything larger than29'
    8. Would likely be spending months on the Chesapeake getting comfortable withall systems before heading anywhere far from port. know my limitations and amnot going to challenge the sea, that much I do know
    So as I head into this quest
    a. Have I narrowed down the builders to much? Only interested in high endbuilders from the 80's
    b. Have seen a few Vikings and a Tollycraft with twin gas Crusader's -concerned about range and reputation of being overly thirsty, but they arepriced well below comp. diesels does the reduced cost make up for the increasedfuel? also concerned about the range with gas, tanks about 400gal
    c. Jefferson's, Gulfstar's and Atlantic's look nice on line, have yet to see inperson and know nothing about them, any help?
    d. know there is a compromised between size, year and maintenance, don't want to get in over my head in size, as everything goes up exponentially, besides not sure I need anything larger.
    Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance"


    New questions:
    a. Rather than running around the East coast looking for a boat - should I find a broker?
    b. If so any recommendations in the Chesapeake bay area? I used to drive over 35,000 miles a year so driving 4 hours each way is my radius, so pretty open.

    Have really boiled the search down to a Hatteras 43 or Viking 44 - aware of the Viking stringer
    issues. Seems Viking boats posted are listed about 75% less than Hatteras - no opinion just an observation.
    Would love to move to a 48' plus but concerned that it would require more cash than I am willing to commit at this time. the budget listed above is all I will commit to prior to any purchase.
    thanks for taking the time to read this
    MAK
    Last edited by MAK; 09-18-2018 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    A good broker can be very helpful. Eric here is well known and respected based in the Chesie

    There is very little difference in costs between a 48 and a 53, or even a 58. Systems are the same. Only extra costs are haul out and bottom paint along with dockage.
    Pascal
    Miami, FL
    1970 53 MY #325 Cummins 6CTAs
    2014 26' gaff rigged sloop
    2007 Sandbarhopper 13
    12' Westphal Cat boat

  3. #3

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    I am also not currently an owner.... But I'm ahead of you in that I have narrowed it down to a Hatt 53ED/58MY/LRC.

    Aside from my appreciation for the genius of Jack Hargrave and the almost perfect execution by Hatteras, one of the reasons I like the Hatts is this forum, and the knowledgeable community it represents including our hosts with the knowledge and parts supply needed to keep these boats going. Something to consider.

    Other than that, you will have to keep reading to answer the questions for yourself. I will tell you that I would NEVER want inboard gas motors. I have seen gas boats go boom. It's not pretty. And while disciplined maintenance and operation will reduce the risk, it's just there and I don't want to worry about it. Diesel is not explosion prone. Diesel engines are more reliable.

    I have successfully hunted boats by myself, and I've used brokers. When in doubt, use a broker.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by oscarvan; 09-19-2018 at 06:32 AM.
    1978 53' Motor Yacht "LADY KAY V"
    Hull number 524
    Chesapeake Bay

  4. #4

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    A good broker can be very helpful. Eric here is well known and respected based in the Chesie

    There is very little difference in costs between a 48 and a 53, or even a 58. Systems are the same. Only extra costs are haul out and bottom paint along with dockage.
    Agree..... Eric Horst is at Bayport yachts on the Chesapeake, He goes by the name of SeaEric on this
    forum and his phone # is 410-643-8100. Great track record with Hatteras and personally owns one.

    Good luck finding your Hatteras, I know you will love it....

    Walt

  5. #5

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Welcome. We have a Hatt 43MY, and a friend (recently deceased) has a Viking 44MY, so I’ve spent time on both. Both are great boats for their intended purpose. He has Detroit’s, I have 302hp 3208T’s - he can get on plane and cruise around 17-18, I don’t even try; we’re hull speed cruisers, so that doesn’t matter to us. On the plus side, maintenance is easier on the 3208’s, and I have way more elbow room in my ER. I draft 7” less, not a lot, but can be the difference in squeezing into a secluded little anchorage. I much prefer my flybridge layout to his. The Hatt is helm-forward, the Viking helm-back. When I’m nudging up to a piling at the fuel dock, I’m looking right down at the piling and the dockhand, on the Viking, not so much; I also don’t like his bench seating to port at the helm - if somebody is sitting there, you can’t move to the rail for a close look over the side. The Viking has a dinette down, opposite the galley; the Hatt has no dinette, but a larger salon. We prefer to eat outside on the aft deck 90% of the time, so that’s a good trade for us. A minor point, the Hatt has main fuel fill on the aft deck, and shore power hookup outside; the Viking is the opposite. I like our setup better, as we can get the shorepower cord right off the aft deck when hooked up, and if it’s raining, or the no-seeums are out, or the Green Police are standing there, I much prefer fueling inside over standing on the dock. We find the boat very comfortable with 4 people cruising. Glad to try and answer any questions you may have.
    Mike Peters, 1985 43MY, Cat 3208T, Blue Bayou; 2011 Key West 246BR, F250, Baby Blue; Punta Gorda FL

  6. #6

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Talk to Eric. I bought my last boat, and first Hatteras, from him, in about 1991. I still have it, so he did a great job. He is also a Hatteras owner.

  7. #7

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Hi MAK! Welcome to the looney bin!
    Confused on item 2. No 'Double Cabin', but aft cabin sundeck OK? So a 'flush deck' is a no-no, but a trunk cabin like an early 42 Hatteras LRC is OK? Do you mean an aft cabin boat with a low profile fly bridge? Be open. Every boat has compromises.

    Though I like to follow the market, I am no longer a broker, however, a reliable broker I trust in Ft. Lauderdale is Frank Gordon. 954-525-8476. He's been there since 1958. I have known him for 40 years. Extensive knowledge on mid size yachts like the one you seek.

    My only advice is find the best boat your budget will allow. If your budget is $100-$150,000, $50,000 doesn't get you much in repairs or renovations these days. A couple of years ago I spent $30,000 just replacing all the soft goods inside a 41' Chris Craft I was restoring. You can replace a pair of gas engines with brand new ones including transmissions for the price of completely rebuilding one 8 cylinder diesel. You can find a great gasser under 45 feet within your budget. Hatteras is great, but others such as the Tollycraft were also very well built boats, as were the Vikings, Bertrams and Chris Craft's. In fact, most of the US built boats were pretty good during that era. Atlantic and Gulfstar were OK too. Jefferson NO. Carver built some real comfortable models in the 1990s to early 2000s. (405, 406, Carver 45) for example. Even Sea Ray built an aft cabin 39/40 and 48 footer in the early to mid 2000s. There is a real nice early 80s 42 Bertram with recent 600 hour gas engines up in Michigan. I also recently noticed a very interesting 1990 model 48 Hatteras in Huron OH, that to me, represents an excellent value with more modern Cummins diesels. Just buy the nicest boat. Leave the fixer uppers to those with a financial death wish!

  8. #8

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Thanks everyone
    Some might not think that your advice is helpful but i truly appreciate and value it!

    jim rosenthal; Walter P;Pascal - I will diffidently look Eric up in the next couple of weeks, thank you.

    pizzazsdaddy - Thanks', as a kid used to bounce around Long Island sound on my 18' 1967 Glaspar Seafarer
    Boat was docked in Saugatuck CT, next to a Lotus dealer. Marina sold Glaspar's; Trojan and Tollycrafts. Their flagship was the Tollycraft 38' Mariner - and WOW was I in love!.
    I looked at a 44 Tollycraft a couple of weeks ago, Gas powered Crusaders - not worried about blowing up, just trying to figure the trade off - Here are Tollycraft specs:
    44’ Tollycraft Aft Cabin MY
    Performance and economy
    twin CAT 3208's at full cruise of 20 knots with the , the fuel burn is approx. 20 gallons per hour.

    At displacement speeds of 8 to 9 knots the fuel burn will be approx. 2 gallon's per hour.
    Mercruiser 454 CID FWC 8.5 knots at 1750 rpm - fuel consumption = 5.8 gph /achieves 1.46 nautical miles per gallon of fuel used
    The gas powered 44' Tolly's and Vikings are listed for about 1/3rd of their diesel counterparts so they are inviting to consider.
    My budget for repairs includes NO SOFTGOODS what so ever - that is over and above.
    I am just starting this whole process and this forum is invaluable to folks like me, not ignorant or naïve but very uneducated in the process. so thanks everyone

    Last edited by MAK; 09-20-2018 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    I also agree Eric is a good broker in your area. Let him show you several different 'models'. Once you see the model you like best, you go out and find the nicest one. There is a Tollycraft 44 docked a few boats down from me. I think it's a real nice boat. Good Choice. Your long term ownership cost will be lower with the gas boat. It looks to me like you are asking all the right questions. Good luck with your search.

  10. #10

    Re: New to Forum - advice

    Thanks, Really trying to get my head around all hard (?) variables, electronics, all systems;
    engine's type; size; economy; dockage; etc. before I go into the market and not waste anyone's time. Ultimately, would like to head from the Chesapeake to Key West, NOAA chart shows about 1100 nautical miles, so gas engines are a concern as far as cost and range. I have compared a Tollycraft 44MY that is equipped both ways Merc. 454's and Cat 3208TA's and ran the numbers to do this trip. So ? are: Is this realistic?; Am I missing something? or is my math just screwed up?
    Note: Merc info from Van Isle Marina review 1989; Cat info from "Searching C Shels" video; Fuel prices average around the Bay

    based on this round trip difference cost is over 2 grand, and range significantly reduced
    Tollycraft 44MY speed Knots GPH Nautical Miles per gal Full Tank Nautical Miles Avg Fuel Cost Gallons Needed Fuel Cost
    Mercury Crusader 454 - Gas 8.5 5.8 1.5 400 1100 $ 3.48 753 $2,618.90
    Caterpillar 3208TA - Diesel 9.0 3.1 2.3 400 1100 $ 3.26 478 $1,556.74



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