Beware of Discount Marine

[Rich60175]

Keep it interesting here and the porn industry will collapse.

Now that's Funny.

[jim rosenthal]

The difference should be obvious. You are advertising your own company. When I suggest that people buy from Defender or Fawcett's, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I don't make any money from those suggestions; I'm sure that at least Defender has no idea who I am. Now, Fawcett's, who are a local shop, know me because I'm in there all the time.

Frankly, I wish we DIDN'T have a policy against commercial posts. It would make my life a lot easier. But until it changes, and I don't think it has, my job is to ask people to abide by it. That doesn't mean I like it, but it's part of agreeing to do this.

[Boatsb]

As I said I dont think recomending my company or others owned by those on the site is a commercial post. If I were to turn a thread into an add that would be different.


Sam's sells many items that defender and others undercut all the time and recommending them is just insulting to our host.

I don't compete with SAM'S. I don't post all kinds of sales but it's pretty disturbing to see my brethren promoting competetors that lowball and undercut authorized dealers when I play by the rules and if I can't offer my services to others on the site and help them.


I believe I keep it professional and low key.

[Boatsb]

And in the banner to the left is a commercial ad.

[Pete]

Jim,


FWIW I do not compete with SAM'S but defender and bow does on anything they can and they do not respect manufacturers pricing policy and violate them when it suits them. They also play games with sales tax but that's another discussion.



I sit here quietly as you and others spout how great the online cheaters are but I do not break the rules to undercut other dealers. I recomend Sam's to others on and off the site and DO NOT sell similar items to them so I hope I am not though to be out of line but there are a bunch of my happy customers that are members here that maybe need to speak up.

Perhaps a few additional thoughts are appropriate on specific aspects of this posting.

MAP: Minimum Advertised Price is exactly what it states, advertised prices. Once a customer engages with a merchant, such as adding an item to an online cart, the actual selling price is between the buyer and the seller, with no involvement of the manufacturer. Thus, it is incorrect to state that merchant are "cheaters" for following the contractual requirements of MAP products.

Sales/Use tax: The requirement for merchants with no physical presence in a state to collect sales tax for deliveries by a third party in that state, does not exist today, and is before the US Supreme Court presently. I fail to understand why a business that is not required by law to collect sales tax would add this overhead to their business model and at the same time impact their bottom line competitiveness.

SAM's Competition: While there is a small percentage of overlap between SAM's offerings and the general retail marine resellers, my view is SAM's offers an invaluable service to us vintage Hatteras owners that no other merchant can match. That advantage protects SAM's market and when you add the loyalty of those who appreciate the service, Steve is in a fine position. All of us need SAM's to be in business and need to keep that thought in mind when making buying decisions where overlap exist.

Business Model: While not specifically addressed in the attached post, IMHO a business model that offers free consulting on a job and then allows the client to walk away using that knowledge to undercut a quote is doomed to failure. In a commodity market, such as retail marine products, there is a need to unbundle consulting/knowledge from hardware resale. Otherwise the business with the knowledge is giving away the most valuable element of a sales opportunity.

[Boatsb]

Perhaps a few additional thoughts are appropriate on specific aspects of this posting.

MAP: Minimum Advertised Price is exactly what it states, advertised prices. Once a customer engages with a merchant, such as adding an item to an online cart, the actual selling price is between the buyer and the seller, with no involvement of the manufacturer. Thus, it is incorrect to state that merchant are "cheaters" for following the contractual requirements of MAP products.

Sales/Use tax: The requirement for merchants with no physical presence in a state to collect sales tax for deliveries by a third party in that state, does not exist today, and is before the US Supreme Court presently. I fail to understand why a business that is not required by law to collect sales tax would add this overhead to their business model and at the same time impact their bottom line competitiveness.

SAM's Competition: While there is a small percentage of overlap between SAM's offerings and the general retail marine resellers, my view is SAM's offers an invaluable service to us vintage Hatteras owners that no other merchant can match. That advantage protects SAM's market and when you add the loyalty of those who appreciate the service, Steve is in a fine position. All of us need SAM's to be in business and need to keep that thought in mind when making buying decisions where overlap exist.

Business Model: While not specifically addressed in the attached post, IMHO a business model that offers free consulting on a job and then allows the client to walk away using that knowledge to undercut a quote is doomed to failure. In a commodity market, such as retail marine products, there is a need to unbundle consulting/knowledge from hardware resale. Otherwise the business with the knowledge is giving away the most valuable element of a sales opportunity.

Map violations are common. Worse is unilateral pricing that Manufacturer sets.i am not allowed to sell below a certain price on many products. That's a legal contract provision fro Garmin, Raymarine and Simrad to name a few. The cheating is when the online resellers and or worst marine violate that to steal a sale. That's the cheating I refer to.

If you consider marine electronics systems at a higher level commodities your fooling yourself. It's not plug and pray. There's system design and power issues to contend with. Setup and programming too. It's beyond the limits of the basic diy owner for sure.

[Pete]

Scott, read my business model paragraph again, and you will see we are in agreement. My point is you can not give away the knowledge and compete only on the hardware.

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I remember my dad having that problem as an architect/designer. People would use his services then take his plans to a builder. He solved the problem when his reputation reached critical mass by offering design and consulting for an upfront fee. He would then give the plans to the client. If they built, he followed through on the build for the standard commission. If not, the client had a set of plans. Most folks, having anted up, realized the value of completing the project. Naturally, that eliminated the tire-kickers on the front end.

[Pete]

Scott, one final thought on this subject before I move on to my task at hand.

Your complaint that the big internet sellers and retail chains do not honor the contractual minimum selling price you feel bound by contractually. I believe there are at least two major paths you can choose.

First, you can continue to publish your complaint and see no changes in your business.

Second, you can choose to take action and try to resolve the disparity you see. To do this I would suggest you change your business model to unbundle your services from purchased products. Charge separately for technical proposal, installation, training, and optimization of the configuration. Next change your purchased product pricing to offer to meet any documented, verifiable price. Next time a customer comes to you with a price below what you believe you are contractually obligated to charge, get on the phone to the product company involved and tell them you need to match your competitions price. See where that conversation takes you then and for the general case in the future.

My opinion is the big guys price to the customer as they please because manufacturers can not dictate end user prices, and/or the manufacturer looks the other way to avoid losing the account. Push hard on them to solve your problem.

[Boatsb]

Defender no longer sells garmin because garmin grew a set and cut them off for too many violations.

Slowly we get this fixed but to promote the dirtbag companies that break the rules just screws the industry.