I Found my 1 st Hatteras, Maybe

[cjd]

Hi All. This is a great site!!
I need some help. I am seriously looking at a 38 hatteras convertible. I am looking for safety, reliability, comfort and quality for me, my wife and 2 small boys for cruising and the fishability when the need arrives. I will be making a large move up from a 22' G.W. with an outboard. I have admired these boats for over ten years now and finally have the opportunity( Funds and backing from my wife) She is a 1989 with Detoit 671 diesels. Its advertised with only 850 hours. Asking price is 175K. Its been listed since Nov. 05' I inspected her yesterday. Nice shape. Interior seems all original.
I just need help on what to look for. Is this a good deal? Do I use a buyers agent? Do I get a survey? How much do surveys cost. WHat kind of yearly expences should I expect to pay?

Any or all recomendations would be appreciated!!
CJD

[Passages]

Welcome to the forum.

Going from a 22 Grady to a 38 Hatt will provide a significantly different boating experience....a better one in my opinion.

$175k seems to be a bit on the high side, but if it proves to be in top condition, its worth every bit of that.

Safety, reliability, comfort? Hey, it's a Hatteras.

Engines @ 850 hours should be fine unless abused. What's the HP? Output has a lot to do with reliability. Pumped to 450 hp, they should be good for 1500-2000 hours, 410hp - about 2000-3000 and naturals at 310hp will outlive you.

Are you dealing with the owner or a broker? It's always best to talk to the owner if possible, brokers however try to keep buyers/sellers apart as owners are often "too honest".

Best advice I can give is try not to fall in love with the boat yet. See a few others for reference. I would not use a buyers rep, but that's me. Being new to big boats, a rep might help you avoid pitfalls. They cost you nothing, and are paid through a split commission with the listing broker. Again, this might cause a problem as to who pays if there is no sellers agent involved.

After you look at a few other boats and confirm this is the one for you, make an offer contingent on sea trial, hull & engine survey. Leave a deposit which essentially says the boat is yours until you say it not yours. The deposit is refundable unless you back out of the deal without cause. Cost for a hull survey varies but will be in the $800 range. Double that for the engine survey.

If I forgot anything, it will be answered by clicking the link below:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatrevie...onvertible.htm

Explore the other articles on that site and you'll learn a lot.

PS, This should be under "General Discussion" Category. Maybe one of the Mods can move it over for you.

[nor'easter]

Congrats. If the boat is not abused and surveys well....DO IT. The 671 have a long reliable history. As noted above, the life expectancy will be most related to their rating. These run forever at lower hp ratings, but tend to need MOH at ratings above 400 (435/450/485 were common). The other issue with them that will give confidence is during the sea trial making sure they turn over what their rated rpm is (likely 2300 like my 6V92s). With a reasonable load, they should turn to 2350 or even more if they are spinning the correct props and not overloaded.
I have a 39 HAT and love the ride, as I am sure you will too. Please keep us posted.

[Nonchalant1]

Good advice above. When you get to the survey stage, go to the "frequently asked servcie questions" section of this site and read the survey tips on the 53MY. There is a lot of stuff in there that applies to any boat that you can do yourself during the sea trial and survey.

If you can deal with the owner without an agent maybe you can save the commission. I bought mine directly and had to have my own lawyer to write the contract, but I saved a lot on commission the seller didn't have to pay and took off the price.

Get a Detroit Diesel service center to do the engine survey. It'll cost about $1,000 if done right but could save you big time. They can be located on the DD website.

Good Luck!

Doug Shuman

[SKYCHENEY]

You will need the hull survey to obtain insurance, but the engine survey is "optional", IMHO. It is really only for your own piece of mind. If it turns out good, then you can feel confident that those Detroits will serve you well. But, if the engine survey finds some problems, then you will have to try to negotiate a price reduction to offset any needed repairs. This may or may not happen. Some sellers are unwilling to move once the initial purchase price has been agreed upon. So, you have to ask yourself -- am I willing to spend another $1000 to find out about these engines, knowing that I may have to walk away from the deal if I don't like what I find out and the seller is unwilling to budge? This also actually applies to the hull survey too. You must first inspect the boat yourself, the best that you can, and decide how much she is worth to you. Then you will have to make an offer that is below that amount. Hopefully you can agree on a price that is below what you think she is worth and then you can arange for surveys and sea trial. The only reason I bring this up is that I have seen many buyers(especially those new to big boats), spend a bunch of money on surveys and then not close the deal because they could not come to terms. It really all depends on how anxious the seller is to get it sold.

I know others will probably disagree with me, but I guess I just hate to see someone spend a bunch on "trying" to buy a boat. Some selling brokers can be pretty pushy and I think you may need some other qualified representation on your side to structure the deal so you aren't dumping money on surveys over and over again.

[Eufaula]

Asking price 175K you should be able to negotiate way lower price than that. As for cost to operate, if the engines are tight meaning no white or black smoke after she warms up or bad leaks. Your yearly would be moorage and insurance. Outside of that it will be mostly cosmetics as to what you want to modify to your likeing. I bought my 38C an older one than you are looking at without a survey and I know I will probably be called nuts by the forum however, I knew the boat and the man that owned it for 22 years. I did all the ground work myself by looking with a bright flashlight. Took her to a boatyard undock and checked it out with the owner and close the deal. I knew what I wanted to change out and what is needed to be corrected in the engines. I just can not drop survey cost and engine survey and not close the deal due to many wrongs. But, as someone mentioned above you need a survey for the insurance unless, you can contact the present ins. agent and enable you to cont. with the insurance after you bought the boat.
James

[MikeP]

I'll join Sky on this one ...I don't think it's nuts to forego a survey IF you are comfortable with your ability to check things out AND it is not required for other purposes such as financing and insurance.

[CAUTION to readers - MikeP is stepping onto one of his largest soapboxes. Surveyors, please head to the nearest public shelter]

I think surveys are laughable. Yep, LAUGHABLE!

I have been through a fair number of boat surveys because I couldn't afford to pay cash for the boats in question. IN NO CASE did a surveyor EVER find anything I didn't find and IN EVERY CASE they failed to find things I found.

The things they didn't find include everything from improper wiring to improper fuel line materials to cockpit drains that drained into the bilge instead of overboard. Included in this were numerous items shown in the survey as working which actually didn't. How the heck does that happen? (Can you spell "boilerplate?") I could go on and on. Don't even get me started on the "moisture-meter" cr@p. Given the option, I would NEVER pay for a surveyor. But that's very much a personal decision. I have a beautifully prepared survey on our 53 with color pics and LOTS of words. It isn't worth the paper it's printed on let alone the 1200 bucks I had to spend to get it. He was a nice guy, though...

Engine surveys? Same thing; never had one, never will. They are not going to find anything that you cannot find IF you are mechanical and IF you are willing to do it. There are no secret engine problem symptoms that only surveyors know. Your ears, your nose, your eyes and a couple of fairly inexpensive instruments and the specs for the engines are all that is necessary.

As Sky mentioned, a lot of folks will undoubtedly disagree with the
no-survey sentiment. As I said, it is totally a personal decision but if I was a surveyor and failed to find the obvious and important items that they routinely miss, I'd fire myself!

The final point I'd make is that the boat is potentially YOUR boat. Who is the person most interested in ensuring everything is OK (or not), the surveyor or you? Some might argue that you could sue the surveyor if the boat blows up (or whatever) after you buy it. Yeah, you probably could but I'd rather determine for myself that the boat has or doesn't have a problem than go through THAT excercise and the associated PITA.

[Whew, he's getting off the box now... ]

[Captned]

[Angela]

I'm glad someone brought this up - what MikeP996 said about getting an official survey.... It's been on my mind, but I've been hesitant to throw this out here... Mike opened the door, so I'm going to walk through.

I have had similar surveyor experiences that Mike describes. When I bought my Cruisers, Inc. express cruiser a few years ago, the surveyor had Ed replacing every engine hose on the boat - when he got into the project with the hoses, he found there was nothing wrong with the hoses. What the surveyor didn't find was the busted structural bulkhead that cost me just under $10,000 to repair - Ed found that while crawling around in the bilge one day. TWO surveyors missed that! And that's just the highlight of that one - of all the "findings and critical corrections needed", none of them were problems at all, and in fact, the survery was wrong on all 7 items he said were critical. But my new engine hoses sure were pretty.

I have a 58MY under contract and have a lot of confidence in the boat following our personal inspection and sea trial last weekend. We've "surveyed" it to death ourselves, and when we do have a professional survey done, we end up telling the surveyor where to look and to be sure to make note of this and that....but, we always needed that survey for insurance purposes. This time, the boat was recently surveyed (October 2005), including haulout, by the owner before she put the boat on the market, and my insurer has accepted that survey and does not require me to get another one. So, it's really up to my discretion whether I throw another $1,000 at a survey that I seriously doubt will be of any real benefit. As thorough as Ed is, I just don't think a surveyor is going to find anything I don't already know, especially since we have the recent survey in hand. This boat is not a project boat with a long list of problems; she has been loved over the years with updates along the way. In fact, this is the first time we could not find any moisture penetration or soft spots in the decking anywhere, not even around the windlass. Even that ancient telephone intercom system worked flawlessly! I just can't image there is anything a hull surveyor would find, that we haven't, that would kill the deal anyway. If the recent survey didn't exist, well yes, I'd go ahead with a survey at this time, no question - I'd have to. But, we're toying with the idea of bailing on the hull survey since we have one in hand. We do, however, want to do haul out so we can inspect the underside for ourselves and inspect the running gear, etc. I do know she's due for bottom paint, cutlass bearings, and stuffing box maintenance which is the first thing I do with any boat I buy, anyway.

What I do want is an engine survey since I'm not as "DD knowledgeable" as a lot of you are. I think I will find that survey to be helpful to me. I don't have the expertise to evaluate those.

Ang

[Gina Marie]

Congradulations on the new venture. I have been a Hatteras owner for one year and I came from a 26 Boston Whaler with OB. I needed the Hatteras survey for two reasons: First I had no idea what I was getting into, if I had to replace the engines or tranmissions or a damaged hull or AC's were bad I used these to re bid the price to the owner. There's a difference if I said they were bad and the surveyor said they were bad. The second thing I used it for was a checklist of what to look for as furture projects. The third thing and must important is can I afford the repairs. I purchased my Gina Marie 1987 45C 45,000.00 less then asking price. That money was justified by the survey and the people wanting to get rid of the boat. I will warn you, you must that read the threads on maintenance in this forum. This is not your GW these boats need constant maintenance and you will need to be handy. In saying that, if you plan a reserve to get you through the initial maintenance you can enjoy enjoy enjoy. After one year and much replacing and updating we love our vessel and we would not think of doing it any other way.

The members on this forum and the help of not only Hatteras but Sams Marine you could not be in better hands. If its a Hatteras these people will solve the problem.

Good luck and enjoy and keep use posted with you progress you can also post pictures so we all can see her.