Hey Daddy Pizzaz, tell us about your boat.

[SKYCHENEY]

How much are you asking for your 53?

When do you plan on seeing PIZZAZ?


Pizzazsdaddy

Well, I guess if you're asking $599K for a boat that is not stablized, I'll have to ask $659K to end up trading even mechanically. Even then, I'll be giving up a whole bunch of expensive extra equipment, a centerline queen and a huge salon just to gain a cockpit. I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd probably be money ahead to just commission a cockpit extension on the boat I already know.

Anyone who owns a 1510 hull will tell you that stablizers are mandatory equipment on these boats. The only reason Pizzaz doesn't have them is because she really wasn't used much. If she was, they'd be on there.

Thanks for all of the information, but I'm not convinced this was anything more than a cosmetic update. Did you put new window rubber in on the fixed windows? It gets hard and brittle over time even if stored undercover. Did you replace the fuzzies and glides in the sliders? Those need frequent replacement to work right. Is there any corrosion in those fuzzie tracks? Do the thru-hulls and strainers look like new are are they green with corrosion?

Do you have digital A/C controls? A water counter? Remote tank gauges? HD Satellite TV? New freshwater toilets? New single handle faucets throughout? New cutlass bearings? Rebuilt steering ram? Rebuilt windlass? DSC radios?

IF the answers to those questions is YES, then this a complete refit. If no, then it's something less than that and not a $599K boat. I agree she is probably the most original, non-molested 58YF on the market and I think that makes her worth a premium, just not 2X the amount of the next best one on the market.

Good luck with your sale. I really do hope you get your asking price. That just makes our boats worth that much more. As far as looking at Pizzaz, if the price comes down to a reasonable number, I'll definitely get a plane ticket. You know where to find me.

[krush]

I am confused. We are talking about aging boats here...that are worth less as each year passes. These aren't vintage autos or houses.

[yachtbrokerguy]

Refit cost does not relate to value now, oops there I go again telling secrets of yacht brokers...I have a listing on a boat now (no mention of what it is so as not to conflict with forum rules). It was built in 1997 and had a refit in 2009 including removing DD 16V-92s and replacing with CAT C-32 A engines 1800 Hp each, now with 465 hours- refit cost 3.7 million, current ask $2,400,000 and flexible very flexible.
Another listing in my office 1997 brand X with the interior removed and replaced with new, cost of refit in 2008 2.3 million, asking now $1,900,000.
A client asked me once what the guidline was for spending on refitting a boat. I told him after it was done he could walk on board and feel good about how it looked and ran, that was most of his return.

[rsmith]

In a time long ago and far away used Hatts did go up in value even to a point where Hatt ran an ad that claimed "owning a Hatteras is more fun than holding a stock certificate" but then again thinking about some of the stocks that were in my IRA, GM, Lucent,worldcom,Enron.... It may be true for these old tubs again.

[GJH]

Yes indeed, my Hatteras including everything I have put into it has done much better in the five years I have owned it than Citibank, Lehman Brothers, Bank of America stock, and about as well as residential real estate in most of California, Arizona, Nevada, and Florida!

[pizzazsdaddy]

Hi Skycheney

OK...now I'm angry!

Please refrain from calling PIZZAZ "nothing more than a Cosmetic Upgrade". I'm totally insulted. So is the Yard Manager, The Marina Owner, My Engine Surveyor, My Surveyor, My Electrician, My Varnish Guy, My A/C Guy, and ALL of the "First Rate" people at Ft. Lauderdales's Cable Marine!

Of course the cutlass bearings were replaced new! Yes, the thru-hulls were done! No, my strainers are NOT all green with corrosion! I think this entire post has already covered everything, and has now become redundant.

To think, I initially joined this coversation while simply trying to help a friend find a "restorable" 53 Classic for a "best value" "starting point". He wants to do essentially the same thing I did, because it's a fun project to manage, and a Classic Hatteras 53/58YF is the only model WORTH re-doing. Period.

He thinks he can totally finish a still OK 53, done right in every respect too, INCLUDING New Cats, New Paint, The Whole Shibang...Everything you asked for, for about $850,000 at his cost. Asking $1.3Mil at the finish line. My buddy owns a couple of marinas, and has been in the boat business for 40 years. He CAN do it cheaper! Based on my experiences with PIZZAZ, We both agree the market is finally right to attempt a Million Dollar 53, complete with a pulpit to platform "new boat warranty" on all of it!

Having grown up on the Great Lakes, and based on what I've heard from others, I have no doubt your "fresh water creme puff" is a "show stopper". It probably SHOULD be on the market asking $659,000. No Kidding. The marketplace needs more nice boats like yours to help stabilize the Hatteras Owners in the middle, while providing the current used yacht buyer with a "viable" alternative to a new boat. Frank Gordon is an excellent and reputable broker, paticularly to list or buy a Hatteras with. Put your boat out there. Let the market decide.

What's the highest offer YOU'VE had? How long ago was YOUR boat refit? How many hours on YOUR boat since new? Why haven't YOU repowered YOUR boat with New Cats yet? Where do we go from here except in a big circle?

This whole thing is turning into a kids argument on who has nicest bike! You own the nicest 53ED on the planet. I own the nicest 58 Yacht Fish on the planet.

The smartest buyers today would be wise to see both your boat and my boat. And then go see what they can buy for less, and add up the numbers. Numbers don't lie.

(Adding a cockpit to your current 53ED will run about $300,000 at todays prices by the way). (and you'd still be without an Aft Deck or Walk-Around Side Decks)! Apples to Apples Skycheney. The lower center of gravity in the 58 Yacht Fish doesn't roll nearly as much as the 53ED either.

$599,000 is a fair asking price. It's nothing more than a market correction for an "extensively" refit, all original, not screwed up, very lightly used, and never abused 58 Yacht Fish, that's been maintained the way a Hatteras should be since day one. I think there's only one of THOSE still in existence. Her name is PIZZAZ.

What is THAT really worth to the right buyer? When I get an offer and a check, I'll let you know.

Gotta go and wash Tropical Storm Issac off of her. My broker has scheduled a showing for Friday.

[SKYCHENEY]

I am sorry you were insulted but all I see is a new generator, new galley appliances, new headliner, and new soft goods. The rest is just regular maintenance. Engine hoses, cutlass bearings, etc are maintenance items. You never even told me how much anchor chain there is or if the window rubber was replaced (again, a maintenance item).

How many 58YF are out there without stabilizers? I'll bet you'll have a hard time finding any. And this is huge expense at 60-70K if you're lucky and maybe more.

Pizzaz is a very nice 58YF. In fact, it is probably the most original, most unmolested example out there. On that we can agree. I will also compliment you on all of the work that was performed. It looks top-notch.

This is not about my boat as it is not currently for sale. I feel just as you do that she should be worth $500k+, but I have to face the reality that she will just not bring that today just as Pizzaz will not bring your asking price in this market. That's too bad and I wish it were not true, but that's the reason I just keep mine and enjoy her. She's paid for and we have a great time using her as she was intended to be. You'll probably end up doing that as well.

Again, good luck with the sale. I hope you find that certain someone that just can't live without her. My opinion is obviously just that, one opinion. Others may disagree as you seem to.

[TopHattandTails]

First $350k takes title to my 1980 53MY - rehabbed, massive upgrades, clean, fresh water since delivery (Great Lakes). Serious enquiries only; or at least a bottle of Goose to compile pics! Any one....Bueller?

[bigbill]

I am confused. We are talking about aging boats here...that are worth less as each year passes. These aren't vintage autos or houses.

hey krush, my 1972 58 yf sold new for 176000.00 in 1976. last time she was surveyed, she was appraised at 175000.00. not bad for a 40 year old boat, oh yeah, i forgot to mention that she was repowered with john deeres and a new onan 17.5 kw in 2001.

[pizzazsdaddy]

Hello TopHattandTails

Bingo! Thank You! The whole point I'm making, is that the market is devoid of really nice Hatterases at the prices they should be selling for. There has got to be a real separation here between the extra nice ones and the rough ones, simply because the Hatteras product was the highest quality, American Made, and most sensibly designed boats ever mass produced. We already know that a standin' tall 53 for example, WILL ALWAYS BE the best "yacht" for the smartest buyer. 349 owners can't be wrong. Patience.

Yes the market wil decide. But without enough really correct boats to compare with, how can true value ever be determined, based on so many distressed examples out there?

Don't stop me now. I'm a Hatteras Loving, Live Aboard Retiree who's on Crusade here!

It amazes me that so many people so focused on PIZZAZs RETAIL ASKING price? I'm sure at some point over the next couple of years, the right price, or the right price with the right trade-in will be arrived at, for the right buyer. In the meantime, I will enjoy every minute on board, and do.

Pizzaz's Daddy