another holding tank question...

[Zydeco IV]

Okay, so I'm new to old Hatteras' too. She's a 78 53' Classic with 8V71TI's and in great condition. My wife and I are really looking forward to our first real cruise starting in the next 2 weeks along the Florida panhandle. My problem is a holding tank that fillls way too quickly. I've read the excellent information exchanged in the the threads on the tanks and it sounds like I may have a problem with a corroded tank pipe. That's the assumption we going in on. I've got a mechanic about to start work on it in the next few days.

One question I've not yet been able to answer is about the size of the tank. It's located starboard in the generator compartment. Additionally, once we cured the problem, what experience have any of you guys had with frequency of pump out. I understand that it's about amount of use. But is there any kind of rule of thumb, say cruising with 4 adults on board over 7 days? Ditto for potable water consumption? And are yall using dishwasher and washing machine when you're out on the hook for a couple of days?

[Nonchalant1]

I have a 1978 53MY too. It's a great boat. Re: Holding tank. You're talking about the 60 gal. starboard tank outboard of the starboard battery bank, I assume. Your boat originally had 2 holding tanks. There's a 100 gal forward tank on centerline under the floor in the forward stateroom. Some owners have converted that 100 gal. tank to a 3rd fuel tank. If you only have the one 60 gal. tank, then hopefully they converted to Vaccuflush too, because Vaccuflush only needs about 1/3 the holding tank volume of your original system.

Originally, your boat had Galley Maid 32 volt head pumps with the aft and forward head connected to the 100 gal forward tank and the mid-head connected to the starboard 60 gal. tank. Mine has that original system and after replacing the two corroded pumpout pipes it now works great.
First, you need know what tanks you have, how they're connected, and what type of equipment you have. Lift the hatch in the floor of the forward stateroom and see if the 100 gal tank has fuel pipes or holding tank pipes connected to it. Does your boat have two pumpout plates on the starboard gunnel where you pump it out? Do both of them pump out effluent when pumped out? Is there some add-on "fuel transfer pump" if the tank is converted to fuel? What is the brand of the heads? Look in the aft stateroom under the starboard built-in drawers where the first low drawers are an access panel. Is there a regular head pump in there or what? The answers to these questions will make a huge difference to what the answers to your original questions are. Two people can go two weeks with reasonable use of the heads in our original configuration 53MY, but we pump it out weekly when we're living on it. Get good holding tank gauges (see threads on Snake River gauge system which easily installs in your 3/4 full senders).

Re: Fresh water - Your boat originally had 3 water tanks connected by gravity feed, totalling 265 gal of fresh water. That lasts 2 of us lots longer than two weeks taking "california showers", no clothes washing, doing dishes by hand, but generally not "skimping" too much on water. It's a lot of fresh water. Get a working fresh water gauge too, so you'll KNOW how much you have left. See threads on that too.

With gauges so you can adjust useage, I'd say you can do 4 adults for a week just fine for heads and fresh water, unless you have only the one 60 gal tank.

Doug Shuman

[Pascal]

many of these boats have been upraded / modified over the years so you first need to know what you have.

water tankage is likely to be original, as Doug described. i don't have gauge on my tanks (yet) but we've had no problem lasting a week (and 2 teenagers use a lot of water!!!). no dish washer but they let the water run 10 or 15'... and my dauhter rarely takes a shower that lasts less than 10 minutes..

holding / heads are likely to have been upgraded. my 1970 53MY originally had 3 holding tanks acc to blueprints and the pump out fittings i still have. 8 years ago original galley maid head were replaced by VFs and a single holding tank in the bow. never figured out the exact capacity but it's about 15x20x30". it's good for 10days for the 3 of us but because of the lousy setup for the aft head (lon runs) i usually flush much longer than needed with a normal VF set up.

beware of "mechanics" jumping to wrong and $$$ conclusions... make sure you're familiar with YOUR boat before trusting someone'$ advi$e. learning your boat and trial and error is probably the best way to get the answers to your questions.

[MikeP]

Our 53MY has the front waste tank converted to fuel which I have been meaning to convert back to holding. All the waste hoses were disconnected and removed so in addition to cleaning out the tank, I will have to rerun all the hoses. Our bow head and lectra-san still connects to the starboard waste tank with valves to either direct the waste to the tank or overboard. Our guest and master heads have the same valves as well but since there is no hose to the forward tank any more, they are routed directly overboard with the waste being treated by a galley-maid chlorine system. Obviously, I have to do something with those two heads to provide holding capability and I'm sure that plumbing them both into the starboard tank will be totally inadequate. As I had planned, I can re-connect the heads to the forward tank.

But based on the two previous posts, it sounds as if the starboard waste tank is sufficient if vacuflush heads are used in place of the originals. Normally there is only me and the Admiral aboard for 5-7 days at a time. Occasionally, there will be 4 people for 2-3 days. Am I right that the 60gal tank will be sufficient for these requirements - figuring pump-out is available weekly?

Although I was happy with the original heads - they work fine - I have been thinking about the vacuflush models. Which particular model did you use on your 53s? If I purchase them, I will install them myself - any idea where to get them at the lowest price?

Thanks!

[Traveler 45C]

If your set up is still original, you can give Hatteras a call and they can tell you your capacities.

Where in the Panhandle are ya’?

Greg

[Zydeco IV]

Many thanks to all you guys for the insight and advice on my holding tank. Looks like yall were dead on in almost every respect. Got the PVC replacement pipe on the way and should be operational for Memorial Day weekend.

The 60 gallon tank capacity is a disappointment, although as Doug observed, VacuFlush heads (which we've got) should be a help in preserving tank capacity.

On a related note: while my forward 100 gal tank was converted to fuel, there does appear to be some kind of waste tank emptying rig with thru-hull fitting & valve and 12 volt pump set up in the forward hold beneath the V-berth. Does this sound familiar to any of you guys and, if so, does it work properly? ( I understand the 3-miles out dumping reg). It would appear to be a real time saver if that's what it actually is.

And one last question regarding potable water, which with friends and grandchildren, we manage to use a lot of. What's the prevailing wisedom on r/o watermakers? I'm seriously considering put one on board. Maybe in the 150 gallon per day range. Anybody had any experience with them? And thanks again for the help. Steve May, Lafayette, La.

[first230sl]

And one last question regarding potable water, which with friends and grandchildren, we manage to use a lot of. What's the prevailing wisedom on r/o watermakers? I'm seriously considering put one on board. Maybe in the 150 gallon per day range. Anybody had any experience with them? And thanks again for the help. Steve May, Lafayette, La.

I have a 600 GPD HRO system 7 watermaker. I am not an expert, but will put my experience down here.

- I don't use it a lot because I generally tie up at one of the yacht club outstations - all but one of which have water and power
- when I am on the hook - I love the water maker because it makes me very self-sufficient. The ony thing to worry about are food and the capacity of the holding tanks.
- these things like to be used - especially in warm water. If you are going to have it idle for more than a few days, you need to flush it with fresh water (some of the new ones do this automatically). If you are going to leave it idle for more than a week or so, you need to "pickle" it with chemicals to make sure the R/O membrane (expensive) does not end up being ruined (growth). Pickling it is somewhat time consuming and the chemicals cost me $50 - $100 each time I do it - maybe there is a cheaper source (tell em please) but I use the stuff from HRO and that is the cost. It is possible that the newest water makers don't need to be pickled because they automatically flush themselves all the time - but someone who knows more than I about modern water makers will have to answer that.
- regarding size, keep in mind a couple things. First, when on the hook, you'll have to run the generator when you make water - unless you have a *really* small one (water maker that is - no insult intended). We usually do the wash, make water, cook, etc all at the same time for a couple hours while we run the gen. However, my HRO is not silent by any means - almost as loud as the generator - but not quite. So you don't want it going all day. And if you need to run the gen as I do to make water, then you *really* don't want it running all day. So unless you can be plugged in and can get a quiet water maker, I'd opt for something much larger. I find my 600 barely adequate. In two hours it will make about 50 gallons. Depending on your use that may or may not be enough for the day. If I got another one, it would likely be 1000 GPD. Maybe you don't mind running your gen for longer periods.

All in all, if I had it to do over again, I might not get a water maker unless I was routinely on the hook for a week or more at a time. I might instead add more water capacity. Simple, won't break down, doesn't need any major maintenance, and quiet. Don't get me wrong - I love the water maker and it does provide wonder freedom, but it is just on the edge of being worth the complexity and hassle - given my use.

And finally - remember my HRO is many years old. It is possible the new ones will give a far better experience in terms of maintenance requirement, noise and power consumption.

Best regards - Murray

[Genesis]

Make your own watermaker.

You buy the membrane unit, the CAT pump (used in pressure washers - simple) and an appropriate electric motor. The only other thing you need is a pressure regulator valve, a suction-side prefilter and some basic plumbing stuff. The high-pressure side is run with hydraulic hose.

This allows you to place the membranes wherever you want, with the pump wherever you want. It is also a LOT cheaper than buying a packaged unit. Like less than HALF the cost.

Oh, if you do it this way you'll have one that outperforms the "commercial" units by a factor of 2:1 or even more in terms of output.

The commercial units are simply all this "stuff" packaged for you already. Save the money and do it yourself.

BTW, if you're not going to run it at LEAST once a week don't get one. Daily is even better. As was mentioned, they must be pickled when not going to be used, and if you don't the membrane will be destroyed. You will not like the cost of that. Also, if you boat in nasty water, particularly water containing petroleum contaminents, the membranes can be trashed by them too.

Watermakers can be great but for most coastal cruisers they're an expensive PITA. If, however, you spend a lot of time on the hook and have the power budget for them they're a VERY nice thing to have on board as they make your fresh water supply basically "limitless".

[first230sl]

Make your own watermaker.

As an in-between solution (if you don't want the expense of the new "fancy and expensive" systems but are reluctant to build your own (which I never considered before - good point)), there are some manufacturers of good, simple systems that are probably way easier to repair and understand than some of the new computerized units. I am speaking theoretically here - I don't have experience other than with my older HRO.

I came across a local manufacturer at the February boat show in Vancouver. I spoke to him and he seemed like a good, KISS kind of guy who knew what he was talking about. If I ever buy a new one I will take a very close look at his and buy one if the references are good. I like the idea of a simple system. He uses standard, off the shelf, easily available pumps and other components. This is a big advantage if you break down somewhere where parts are hard to get, or if the manufacturer stops supporting your model (I'll never buy an HRO again - I called them about filters and the lady on the phone recopmmended I buy a new water maker from them because they no longer support the model I have and if something breaks on it they will not supply me with parts - and it is a proprietary pump).

In addition, the cost of his systems are about 1/2 the cost of the usual ones you see advertised.

When looking at the web site below, remember that the prices are Canadian. Myltiply by about .79 for US dollars.

The site is http://www.wolfwatermakers.com/

Or - as Karl says - you can make your own.

[Pascal]

steve,

sounds like what i have. holding tank in the bow, under the cabin sole with a macerator and discharge thru a sea cock on the port side. Mine is a sealand macerator, which can be run dry without damage. Key switch is under the fwd head sink.