Cold start with warm engines

[labrador]

Well we went to Fla. this weekend to look at boats and saw one we liked. Called the broker again that night and asked if we could see it again in the morning and asked if we could have a cold start. He said he'd ask the owner which he did and we could do that. Went Sat. morning and looked again then down to the engine room. Well it was hot down there and as soon as I touched the engines I found out why. They had been started and warmed up by someone, no one would admit. Cat 3208 425hp with 800 hrs. White smoke from the get go. Continued for 5 minutes at which time I increased to 1000 rpm. Lots more white smoke. As Never had diesels before, is this a problem or maybe just injectors as the broker stated. Seems to me that warm engines should not smoke at all with these hours.
Skip

[MikeP]

You specifically asked for a cold start and they specifically took steps to ENSURE you didn't get one. That seems to me to say all about the engines and the seller that you need to know. I would tell them that and walk away.

[SeaEric]

Even healthy 3208's will smoke in COLD weather when started COLD. In Florida, with engines already warm- well, no.

Mike P summed it up pretty accurately.

[fissioneng]

...and 425 HP 3208s are not known for longevity or durability. I'm with MikeP and SeaEric. 3208s usually start up with a little blue smoke. I'm not the CAT expert here by any means, but you might want to check into that model of engine before you buy. Lesser horsepower versions (210 NA, 320 T) have a much better track record.

[saltshaker]

Well we went to Fla. this weekend to look at boats and saw one we liked. Called the broker again that night and asked if we could see it again in the morning and asked if we could have a cold start. He said he'd ask the owner which he did and we could do that. Went Sat. morning and looked again then down to the engine room. Well it was hot down there and as soon as I touched the engines I found out why. They had been started and warmed up by someone, no one would admit. Cat 3208 425hp with 800 hrs. White smoke from the get go. Continued for 5 minutes at which time I increased to 1000 rpm. Lots more white smoke. As Never had diesels before, is this a problem or maybe just injectors as the broker stated. Seems to me that warm engines should not smoke at all with these hours.
Skip

Walk away. 425HP 3208's are highly stressed and won't give you great service life. Add the fact that they appear to be hiding something and the deal looks even worse. If someone admitted to starting or leaving block heaters on, at least you could say it was a mistake. Don't do business with someone who flat out lies to you.

[solanderi]

Maybe its a nice boat. Since they are so respectful of your time just make them an offer with the motors discounted out of the equation. Or if you want to help them as much as they are trying to help you, be more specific about the name of the broker, owner and boat on this site. My $0.02. I'm sure having such an honorable mention on the HOF will get their boat lots of special attention. Don't despair, we looked for our 45C for 6 months from Palm Beach to Key West. Good Luck.

[svaron]

When we went down to Marathon FL to sea trial our 'dream boat' that we were under contract with, we specifically asked for a cold start at the beginning of the day. We got to the marina the day of the survey and the boat was just pulling up to the dock... so much for the cold start. We continued with the survey anyway. At the end of the day we walked away from the boat... it stayed on the market for 3 years beyond that. It turned out there were many things wrong with the boat, the engines being the least of it.

2 months later we found the sister-ship to that boat (one hull number apart) and have enjoyed every minute of ownership since. Wait and don't settle...your boat is out there...

[Genesis]

Well we went to Fla. this weekend to look at boats and saw one we liked. Called the broker again that night and asked if we could see it again in the morning and asked if we could have a cold start. He said he'd ask the owner which he did and we could do that. Went Sat. morning and looked again then down to the engine room. Well it was hot down there and as soon as I touched the engines I found out why. They had been started and warmed up by someone, no one would admit. Cat 3208 425hp with 800 hrs. White smoke from the get go. Continued for 5 minutes at which time I increased to 1000 rpm. Lots more white smoke. As Never had diesels before, is this a problem or maybe just injectors as the broker stated. Seems to me that warm engines should not smoke at all with these hours.
Skip

You were intentionally deceived. That's the end of the deal if I'm the guy doing the looking.

And yes, it's a problem; whether serious or not is impossible to determine without some investigation, but once you determine you're dealing with someone who will intentionally screw with you, why would you want to transact a business deal with them?

Walk away while it's still free to do so.

[jmencel]

I agree you should walk away. 3208's pushed to 425 hp have turbo chargers and after coolers to get the HP this high, and have shorter lives due to the heat and stress of a higher HP engine. Rule of thumb is that hp on diesels should not exceed much more than 50% of displacement or shorten engine life will result. These engine are about 640 cubic inches, so around 320 hp is about as high as you want to go to get long reliable engine life. My 320 hp 3208 (1200 hrs) do not smoke excessively on start up, and certainly not much at all when they are warm. It clears within minutes. White smoke is usually a bad thing ... usually caused by water entering the combustion chamber somewhere.

[jmencel]

By the way, injector issues will usually cause sooty or black smoke as fuel is not being totally burned (particularly during hard acceleration), not white smoke. despite what the broker told you. Cat 3209 injectors according to the service manual should be serviced every 900 hours. Pulling and cleaning 16 injectors is not an inexpensive proposition if you are paying a diesel mechanic $90 an hour. But from what you describe the problem is likely much more serious than injectors.

CAT 3208's are very reliable and long lasting engines as long as they are well maintained (oil changed) and the HP is not pushed way up.