Time To Take A Stand

[nyrussell]

The masses did get pissed and they showed you that on Tuesday in Mass


WAKE UP



Brian

Assinine statement!!!

[Avenger]

Define "basic level of care." The problem with these things is inevitably there's an expansion of "need" and self-perpetuating bureacracy that makes costs escalate until they're unaffordable.

Personally, I think if the government wants to reform health care they should look at the cost side of the equation instead of the funding side. How about some reforms on liability? How about cutting back on the FDA hoops that drug manufacturers have to jump through which haven't ensured the safety of all medicines and provide no liability protection.

Health care and health insurance used to be much more affordable until the government, insurance companies and trial lawyers collaborated to make sure that it wasn't.

The programs that were proposed did nada to address cost except for some vague promise to eliminate "waste, fraud and abuse." And they say that with a straight face.

[Brian Degulis]

Gov. has a history of creating problems then insisting they be empowered to solve them.


Brian

[Boatsb]

Noel I have to agree with Brian.

Even the liberal dems have had it with the handout mentality.

I think the next move is "motivation by the looming threat of starvation". If the gravy train derails no one gets fed.

Corporate America needs to turn back and downsize without contoling their market. More companies in a market mean more people working and more people making a decent living. When only one mega corp controls a market the wealth is pushed away from the local workers who are no longer paid well.


Also at the same time working America needs to actually work. No BS that the illegals get all the good jobs or that we wont work for that little so let them have it. No job should be below them. Especially if they have not worked in a while or ever.

last but not least the tree huggers and AGW mafia need to let us manufacture again or we will not be able to survive when the other countries take our manufacturing jobs and do not protect the enviironment. Look at the sum of this equation.

1) An American company closes the plant because they can not dump x pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere because of a new law.

2) 2000 jobs go to China or India where they open a plant that makes the same products and dumps 4x pounds of CO@ into the environment.

3) America is weaker and more CO2 is dumped than before.


Thanks Al gore

[Canuck Dennis]

The UK was one of the first Countries to bring in universal health care, was a wonderful thing in it's time, however, time has proven , as it has in Canada, that unless you tax the living life out of people and Corporations it just cannot sustain itself, the costs escalate beyond the ability to pay a reasonable amount.
Many reasons for this...
People who use the Dr as a crutch to hear all their ills.

People who are hypocondriacs and always need care and drugs.

New technology and new medications which everyone including the Hospitals want.

Over staffing of admin workers,

Unions dictating who does what , where and when, for instance...the following is true..
In Vancouver a ward nurse works a 12 hr shift, if her replacement is "late" for work and she is asked to stay to fill in...she gets pd another 12 hrs, even if the replacement shows up 1 hr later, where is the sense in that ?

Anything that is perceived to be "free" is usually used up pretty fast henceforth the phenomal high cost of universal care. In Canada it is against the law to seek medical care from a facility which is not licensed under the Canada Health Act..i.e. crossing into Wa State for emerg treatment is technically illegal.

Therefore, we in Canada have a long waiting list for elective surgery, hip or joint replacement is "elective " and one can wait for a year to get treated. or, go private across the line..and pay up to 20 k for knee fixup job.

I have been fortunate in all my dealings in the system, any urgent care was done within safe time limits, (it's who you know). If we had more private care then the public waiting lists would diminish, for a while only, because then more people would be able to get fixed quicker and hence the perpetuation of the escalation in costs.

I don't know the real answer, it's heartbreaking to see people not get health care and fall into a terrible abyss and lose everything, that in essence costs a Nation more than it should but to give free health care is a slippery slope
to anger and frustration among those who actually finance the druggies habit and lazy bums who just don't give a damn and there are many of those.

Politicians for some reason think they know the answers, read Mark Twain.

[Avenger]

Brian,

You to do not read and comprehend. Go back to the bloody boob tube as you also do not understand how to create a productive workforce for the country.

BTW, I can't get my head around this. Brian employs people and provides them with top-shelf healthcare and you think he doesn't know how to create a productive workforce?

[Brian Degulis]

Thanks but I think we might as well argue with a brick it would be just as productive. It's not the liberal ideology that bothers me I actually think some of the liberal ideas are good. Universal health care as a concept is good. In it's most basic form it would be like you and me and 20,000 other people getting together and depositing $200 per week into an account then drawing off that to pay our health care costs. So the idea is good if it's done right you would have surplus to cover people that are truly in need. But in this case it's only a good idea because everyone involved wants the same thing. If you take that good idea and put people in charge of it that want something completely different in this case the government then that good idea becomes a horrible reality and history proves that correct.

So it's not the liberal ideas that annoy me it's the illogical goofy argument. He goes on and on rejecting true and accurate information because he doesn't like the source. He doesn't challenge the accuracy just complains about the source. No thinking person rejects accurate information because of where it came from. A thinking person accepts accurate information and rejects in accurate information regardless of how he came upon it that's basic.

He also doesn't see the obvious truth. All these liberal entitlements have not improved the lives of anyone. In fact it makes people dependant on Gov. which is exactly what they want. Anyone who thinks entitlements help need only visit the slums and see the human condition that entitlements have created. These people are forever trapped and subservient and dependant on Gov. for they're very existence. Sadly this is exactly what Gov. wants as it insures votes and power.


And this is what he will never understand a compassionate act and good concept will inevitably turn into a terrible reality when dishonest people are in control. That terrible reality will harm the people you seek to help and empower the people that create that reality. History proves this true you need only look back to see that.

Brian

[wmassey9]

After reading all posts, it's obvious there is plenty emotion to go around. No problem with the argument that if all stops doing with banks, they will go out of business or respond to the request/needs of there customers. But really, this country cannot survive without banking. How would be buy anything on line? How would use the internet without paying for the service? sure you could show up a local internet company office an pay cash, but what a waste of time. Thing about all you do, or the masses of US citizens do that require banks. Anyone own a home or car? Most are financed thru, you guessed it, Banks. Banks are necessary. Regulation of these businesses for the good of everyone has been outrageous. Look at Goldman Sachs, stayed within the government guidelines (took advantage of) like any busininess looking for a bottom line to make profits for shareholders, not to mention bonus payments to employees. Don't look at Dems, or Republicans, all are guilty of greed and pure ignorance. If gov regs were in order, not , if regulators would regulate, and just some of the politics would get out of the way, things could improve. There are so many to blame.

[nyrussell]

Thanks but I think we might as well argue with a brick it would be just as productive. It's not the liberal ideology that bothers me I actually think some of the liberal ideas are good. Universal health care as a concept is good. In it's most basic form it would be like you and me and 20,000 other people getting together and depositing $200 per week into an account then drawing off that to pay our health care costs. So the idea is good if it's done right you would have surplus to cover people that are truly in need. But in this case it's only a good idea because everyone involved wants the same thing. If you take that good idea and put people in charge of it that want something completely different in this case the government then that good idea becomes a horrible reality and history proves that correct.

So it's not the liberal ideas that annoy me it's the illogical goofy argument. He goes on and on rejecting true and accurate information because he doesn't like the source. He doesn't challenge the accuracy just complains about the source. No thinking person rejects accurate information because of where it came from. A thinking person accepts accurate information and rejects in accurate information regardless of how he came upon it that's basic.

He also doesn't see the obvious truth. All these liberal entitlements have not improved the lives of anyone. In fact it makes people dependant on Gov. which is exactly what they want. Anyone who thinks entitlements help need only visit the slums and see the human condition that entitlements have created. These people are forever trapped and subservient and dependant on Gov. for they're very existence. Sadly this is exactly what Gov. wants as it insures votes and power.


And this is what he will never understand a compassionate act and good concept will inevitably turn into a terrible reality when dishonest people are in control. That terrible reality will harm the people you seek to help and empower the people that create that reality. History proves this true you need only look back to see that.

Brian

So Brian we should quite before we start? You wouldn't fight hard to try and fix the issue? You wouldn't try to envision a better reality? And you would not teach the same if you could?

Is it actually better to just lay down?
Or did the sixties just ruin your belief in a better world?

I am sorry, I just have to believe in the good nature of mankind overall (Haiti for an example) rather than just give in and say, Oh well.

BTW, this does not mean I am not a realist, just guided by my ideal of the good of man. Then again, I also know that there is a point which needs to be controlled.

This is why we need safety nets or basic health care.

[nyrussell]

BTW, I can't get my head around this. Brian employs people and provides them with top-shelf healthcare and you think he doesn't know how to create a productive workforce?

He does, but i was not talking about him in the prior post, I was discussing the reason for basic health care for the country. Which again is pulling ones head out of their little patch of ground eh?