Anchor Pulpit rebuilds/core trouble foreward (and fixes)

[Genesis]

.... today.

I decided to go into this from the bottom. I don't know why, but I was sitting on the boat, its threatening to rain this weekend, and of course with the top open you can't do anything until you're going to have a week or more of dry weather sequentially.

So out comes the cordless circular saw, a dive hood (to protect my hair), an organic vapor respirator (not feeling like breathing any of that crap) and a pair of goggles (nor do I want it in my eyes), along with a dremel with a cutoff wheel.

On my back I go, up inside the chain locker, and cut the bottom around, then ripped it out.

And out it came. The entire core under that area was a gooey mess. I decided to bug-bomb it (to cover the chance that I've got a bug infestation in there as was in the pulpit wood), let it dry overnight, and come back to it in the AM to start chiseling out all the rotten core.

I should be able to get back far enough with a small chisel to get to good core, if I planned the cut location right. If not, then I'll have even more work to do, and more underskin to rip off.

The underlayer was one layer of roving and not even completely resin-saturated. It came off the rotted core easily, of course, once I got it started with a screwdriver.

So FWIW its drying out now. My CPES will be here tomorrow, I picked up some glass cloth and mat this afternoon, and will be ready to attack rebuilding this thing as soon as I can get it dug out and dried.

I'm going to start working on finishing the stripping of the pulpit, sanding and re-fairing, then repainting it here in a couple of days as well.

With any luck in another week or so I may have it fixed and back together, if the weather cooperates.

[Bob Bradley]

That sounds like a nice way to avoid having to refinish the deck as well. And, there is a surprising amount of room to work in there once the windlass is out. I've been laying old lifejackets across the opening to save my back a bit while I'm in there.

So, will you goop up the top of the plywood with epoxy/silica and press it up into place with a jack of some sort? I really like the idea of not disturbing the finished deck top.

If you have a chance, take a couple digital shots of the job as you progress. And, please let me know of any problems you encounter, as I'm about a week behind you on the same job.
Bob

[Genesis]

My intent is to first clean it all out, of course.

I've pretty much decided to go get a couple of sheets of thin plywood - 1/4" at most. The idea here is to insure that the resin will soak all the way through it. The problem with using 3/4" is that epoxy won't soak all the way through it, and I want to make damn sure that this repair can't fail from water intrusion in the future. The only two ways are to laminate up the entire deck (which I considered, but from the bottom that's a NASTY job, so its now off teh table) or to use thin pieces of ply and build up my own laminate, with each of them being set in place with epoxy so it can soak through the entire thickness of the board.

I'll then cut the layers that are going to go in and dry fit the assembly. The first layer will have thickened epoxy slathered on it, and put in place. Then each layer under it, while still wet, will be slathered with epoxy and pressed up against the former, until the entire "sandwich" is constructed, with paste-consistency thickened epoxy puttied in around the edges to insure there are no gaps. This should be able to be done in a couple of hours once all the prep work is done. I'll likely bring an old scuba reg over with a tank and breathe off it while working to avoid gassing myself in the chain locker from the fumes.

Then the bottom will go back on (another layer of thickened epoxy) and the entire thing will be held up with a couple of pieces of 2x4, with a piece of plywood underneath so that it is held straight, with wax paper on top so that it doesn't stick from the drippings (of which there will be many.)

(BTW, a piece of 3/4" plywood sits nicely on the chain locker separator in the locker, giving me a nice flat and clean place to lay while I'm working.)

Once that's set then I will rough up the piece of underside I cut out and lay cloth over the joint, building that up so that at least one more full layer of cloth is laid over the bottom. This is intended to provide additional strength to the underside of the deck in this high-load area and insure that the bottom doesn't fail under load. That'll require me to don the protective gear again so the sanding does doesn't give me either silicosis or permanent itchies.

Then I get to try to drill back through all that in order to remount all the hardware... I expect it will be a ROYAL bitch, but that's the idea.

The deck under the pulpit will need to be sanded and filled with fairing filler blended with epoxy, as parts of the paint and skin-out mat came off when I removed the pulpit. There's no way I will be able to 100% match it, so there will be a roughly 3" wide area around the outside of the pulpit outline that I will likely repaint - the line will be clearly visible, but I've no good alternative to this.

Then the pulit, already prepared, will be dry-fit, new shoring fit and resin-infused in the same way I'm doing the core (built up layer-by-layer, all soaked in epoxy) and then bolted back on and the windless and roller re-installed.

That should do it.

Will try to get some pics starting tomorrow; I'm going to go over there in a bit and air out the compartment I gassed, along with turning on the AC and a big fan to start drying it all out.

[Gary]

Genesis: greetings from the Pacific Northwest. I've been reading this post, thankfull that I do not have an "upside down" project going. Sounds like you are going the extra mile and I can't think of a more important structural application than windlass support. One comment, though...
You aren't really going to saturate 1/4 ply- all penetration will stop at the glue line. The only way for full wood saturation is something like the West system, using individual veneers. I would go with 3/4 marine ply (or 5/8-1/2 depending on your "space"). Meaning real marine ply- full veneers all layers, no plugs and at 3/4 there better be at least 7 plys. Resorsonal glue, of course. My guess is that in these parts, at least, I would probably have to go to a place specializing in wood boat building stuff to find marine ply. I bet they would sell a partial sheet and as a bonus, really know what they are talking about. Just seal the edges good with epoxy resin and overlay w/frp as you see fit. Should result in less "upside down" time.
Good luck!
Gary

[Genesis]

I'm having fun trying to find marine plywood here..

If I can't, my defense is going to be to basically build up my own plywood using thin veneers, and resin-infuse all the layers, using exterior-grade materials. That may be the best I can accomplish if I can't find a source for "true" marine plywood.

The problem with 3/4" marine ply is that you can't get the resin through it, as you noted. This means that wherever there's a penetration it remains possible for water to get in there and you know what starts once that happens - same thing that already happened.

I can oversize-drill the bolts for the attachment of the roller, then fill with high-density filled epoxy, then re-drill with the correct size, but that's totally impractical for the windless shaft itself. There's not a hole-saw made that will do a 4" thick core in solid filled epoxy.

I've got a few days to mull over exactly how I'm going to build the core back up, but one key is that there must be no way for water to get back in there and rot it again, even if the bedding fails. If that means that I have to spend more time upside down, then so be it.

[double eagle]

I must be missing something on this thread..
you guys are trying to make the pulpit superman strong
like the windless is needing all this strength...
correct me ...you should never use the windless to hold the anchor and chain[ or rode ] should be tied off to the cleats or a chain snubber [ rope and chain hook and tied off to the cleat on either side..]
the windless is not made to take the pressure of the chain working on it over night or at anchorage..
my old 1972 has the old style aluminum bow pulpit
IMHO
BILL
DOUBLE EAGLE

[Gary]

The point in this thread about not wanting the windlass to take the anchor rode load is all well and good but we must remember it is to protect the gear train. Boat trailer winch manuals will tell you the same thing. But your crazy if you don't have that brake set good just in case.

My dad was a career Coast Guard guy. One of my early memories is his explaining that they would never tow a yacht by its cleats- they would tear them out. Always ran a line clear around the boat. This appears to hold water today (dad retired in 1957). I read a recent article where a sailboater transiting from Seattle to San Diego had to be towed by the coasties into Tillamock, Or. A net had fouled their shaft and rudder. They made the guy run the line around the mast! This is dumb when you consider how masts are stepped- certainly not designed for this. Would make more sense to use the jib sheet winches and fairlead at bow.

Bottom line: make that windlass mounting the strongest thing on the boat (well, equal to the chain stopper).

Gary

[mike]

My 1972 53' MY was towed by the coasties into Tillamock, Or in sept 2002. They did not use a line around the boat (bad fuel, dumb captain & dumber owner). Instead the line was rigged to cleats (by hired captain) on the Aluminum Ideal pulpit. It with-stood the force, but towing it in 8' seas did manage to pull the entire system forward about 1/4". I now have a SS plate under the deck cleats in back of the windless that has been glassed and bolted to the deck with braces running back along the gunnel down to the stringers in-order to spread the pulling force. I have also made a 50' nylon bridle to act as a shock absorber in case I need it in the future. mike

[Bob Bradley]

Karl,
I wouldn't make myself nuts trying to soak cpes or west completely throughout the plywood. As long as the surface and any exposed edges receive 2 or 3 shots of cpes, that stuff will not rot. I replaced the aft gunwale (fantail?) on my '65 Chris Seaskiff in '87 with 1/2" marine ply. Back then, I was still learning, and I didn't do anything whatsoever to the plywood. 10 years later, over the winter of '97/'98, I replaced the remaining gunwales all around the boat, and re-did the fantail since I was also replacing the transom.

Well, that 10 year old untreated plywood was plenty wet, and had been for quite a while, but there was no evidence of decay or delamination whatsoever. True marineply is good stuff. Not only are there no voids, but the glue is waterproof. I believe you can boil it for something like 3 hours before it fails. You can get it shipped to you from Condon Lumber in White Plains, NY if you can't find it locally. Their phone is 914-946-4111. They have any wood you heart could desire.

Presuming that the core is 3/4" thick, like the gunwales, I plan on using either 1 layer of 3/4 or 3 layers of 1/4 marine ply, precoated with 2 or 3 coats of cpes, and loaded on top with epoxy silica. Once I re-bore the hawse holes thru it, and redrill the bolt holes for the windlass and roller mount, I'll treat the exposed holes with cpes.

All that, combined with PROPERLY BEDDED HARDWARE (are you listening, Hatteras???) should make for a proper, permanent repair.

By the way, after listening to your well thougth out approach, I will be doing this from underneath as well. Last year, I had hoped to do my gunwales from underneath, but there just wasn't enough room to cut out the bottom layer of fiberglass.
Thanks for all the details.
Bob

[garyd]

I would skip plywood and use aluminum. The newer upscale models are using aluminum. We have a waterjet if you can do a drawing we can cut it. You would have to prepare the underside of pulpit. I would use a router to give a level flat serface for the Al. to rest in, route out 3/4 inch use 1/2 aluminum. Since your doing all this work, might as well go the final mile. Therfore it will never again rot out.

garyd.