This Health care Debate Is making me sick

[Brian Degulis]

The idea that this a "health care" debate is deception. This country has the best health care on the planet this is a health insurance debate. The Obama administration is telling us that cost of health insurance is to high leaving 50mil people un insured. The first question is why is it so costly? One reason is that for the past 25 years our government has been mandating coverage for pregnancy and viagra and a whole host of other things that are choices. The next question is how many of that 50 mil could afford some sort of coverage but elect not? The Obama administration tells us that electing to not purchase health insurance is un acceptable and they want to mandate it forcing everyone to have health insurance or face penalties. They tell us this is the way it must be because those without insurance get medical attention at hospital emergency rooms and don't pay the bill so as taxpayers that cost us all money. Well who decided to mandate that hospitals treat anyone who shows up? Who decided that even people with no means of paying without life treating conditions people that aren't even here legally must be treated? Our government that's who the same government that now tells us they must start providing health insurance to solve a problem they used our tax dollars to help create. The idea that everyone without insurance gets treated at an emergency room then stiffs the hospital is absurd. Many people have affordable high deductible disaster policies. When they need treatment for something minor something that's normal and expected they go to a doctor and they pay for the service. This administration would have you believe that never happens.

So they tell us this is all about providing people with the best possible health insurance they keep saying that over and over. Now they're talking about taxing "gold plated coverage". Wait a minute isn't providing good coverage what this is all about? Then why would you want to raise the cost of good coverage? You would think that those that are willing to pay for the best without costing the taxpayers a dime would be what we all want. I employ 17 people and provide them with gold plated coverage. This includes they're families so there's probably around 50 people covered. In this economy it's getting harder and harder for me to pay for it. A cost increase would probably force me to get rid of it and replace it with something cheaper in other words 50 people would now not be converted as well as they were.

They tell us we must have a government option in other words a government owned and run insurance company. They say this will keep private insurance companies honest because they will have to compete with the government option. How in the world is any private insurance company going to compete with a competitor that does not have to make a profit. A competitor that gets to make the rules A competitor that can use the power of taxation to supplement they're government option. The answer is simple private companies will not be able to compete and eventually the government option won't be an option it will be the only choice and it will be mandated.

So you really have to ask yourself is this about providing everyone with good health insurance or is this about getting everyone on the government provided plan? It seems pretty clear to me that this about getting everyone on the government plan. If that were to happen if government were to provide everyone with health insurance they will certainly use that to control every aspect of your life. They will justify it the same way they now justify the need for the government plan. The next step would be to nationalize health care itself and then will be right in line with Canada. We will go from providing the best health care on the planet to something that resembles the post office or social security or department of motor vehicle etc.

I wonder if all you Obama supporters will ever wake up and see what's really happening?

Brian

[labrador]

Don't hold your breath Brian, uninformed people are what we have voting nowdays. There are more of them than us these days. Anything for free, however they don't realize it's not free. I'm in the same boat with you with 20 employees. Charge them a measly 13.00 per week. They bitch about that and when I tell them what it really costs, most in the shop basiclly say I can afford it. That while I'm driving a Pacifica with 125000 miles on it and have my house and everything I own pledged to the bank so I can keep paying them while the business has lost money for the last 2 yrs. On the bright side thing are looking up. Just got a 1mm contract and have quoted more projects in the last 2 months than in the last 2 yrs. Maybe I'll just build it up and sell as I've put more than 10 yrs on this old body in the last 1 year.

[spartonboat1]

Setting the health care bill debate aside, I am very concerned for the financial welfare of the country, esp. 7-10 years down the road. That is when I 'should' be retired, but will I be able to with any confidence? I am very concerned!

Someway, somehow, there are $93T (yes trillion) in unfunded mandates buried in that gawdawful bill, plus the medicaid and medicare mandates. P.s., both Medicaid and Medicare are already basically bankrupt.

Add to that, all the Social Security funds have already been spent and useless IOU's are all that is left. It is really an 'income transfer' program, since no funds are in reserve for the SS system. I do not have at hand how many $trillion that is. (Income Transfer- funds in, instantly out, none set aside in reserve).

This may be the most incompetent, bordering on criminal behavior, congress we have ever had. They truly may take down the country. I will grant you that the health care system could stand fine tuning, but the cure is going to kill the patient!

[Pete]

Having just turned 65 and gone on Medicare, perhaps I can help some younger folks plan better than I did for this event. The Admiral and I did the transition within an 8 month period so we got hit all at one time. The bottom line is we have Medicare Part A and B with supplemental coverage provided by the company I retired from, for a premium. The total I pay in health insurance premiums went up 2.5X from my previous premium, pre Medicare, for the same basic coverage. Why you ask, because the Medicare Part B premium is "means determined". Your prior year tax return determines your premium, and the differences are big bucks. And if you file jointly, even if the Admiral had no income, she gets the same premium. When making plans for how to take income of any type on a deferred basis in retirement, just to be safe, collect it all at least 24 months before you turn 65. The exact timing varies with your birthday but 24 is a winner for everyone. This is worth checking out in your planning so you get your case exactly right. You want to be semi poor when you go on Medicare.

I think this is a good example of what is to come with our future government run health care. Once the basics are in place, "means based premiums" will be close behind. Part of the redistribution of the wealth plan. You will have the opportunity to pay for your health insurance and likely a few others, who will not be covering their own responsibility. Doesn't it make you feel warm all over to know the government is going to help you help others.

Pete

[bobk]

Im going to get creamed for this, but let's escalate the argument to a higher plane. Bring in Darwin.... then ask why we should be helping those with out the desire or gumption to better them selves. That is counter to evolution theory and survival of the fittest. Is health care a right, or is it to be earned by those who are willing to bust their buts to have it? Our country was founded on 'equal opportunity' not give away to all. Work for what you want! I did and so did you.

Bob

[Boatsb]

Welcome to the Darwin Party.

[Genesis]

The problem with health "insurance" is that it is not insurance.

This problem, by the way, was created by President Nixon with wage and price controls. He essentially "fathered" the employer-linked health system.

This system makes working for a small business or as an individual rather than a large corporation ruinously expensive for health coverage, and thus dramatically disadvantages such enterprises. It also leads to millions of personal bankruptcies when you get sick between jobs or as a self-employed individual.

The solution is to force insurance companies who want to sell insurance to actually sell insurance, not pre-paid medical plans called insurance. One means of doing this is to mandate that any company selling any plan to any institution or individual must allow any person within that state to enroll in the same plan for the same price, irrespective of employment.

Second, force all providers to publish price lists and forbid billing and collection at any other than the published price. This stops the "bill an uninsured person at 500% of the insurance-reimbursed price" game that hospitals run ROUTINELY.

The uninsured guy who shows up with a heart attack and no money is a problem. The simplest solution to THAT is to pass a law allowing the hospital to bill the federal government (at their published price) for the care; the federal government immediately pays it, but that becomes a lien on the individual owed to the government (the IRS.) This stops the cost-shifting yet does not invade on the "we won't let you die" meme we have become accustomed to, and further forces complete disclosure of the cost of uninsured individuals. For non-citizens that amount is billed back to the nation of your citizenship and if the nation refuses it is directly deducted from all other foreign aid provided to that nation.

End of problem (immediately), but this destroys the cartel behavior of the health insurers, providers and physicians.

[Brian Degulis]

We don't have to become the Darwin part nor do we have base policy on survival of the fittest. But we do have to realize that our government does not have the peoples best interest at heart. We have to understand that depending on government to solve problems requires that we fund and empower government and that's always a mistake. The result will be exactly what we are seeing now a government engaged in social engineering who's goal is to cater to it's supporters and ignore all others. Combine that with a News media that runs 9 to 1 liberal and you've got a prescription for disaster. It's mind boggling to me to listen to Obama continuously blame the Bush administration for the recession. One of the first things Obama did when he became a US Senator was to join Chris Dod in filibustering legislation introduced by the Bush administration to stop Fanny and Freddy from insuring liar loans. I'm not defending the Bush adminstration only pointing out the dishonesty in Obama's blame game. But the main stream media never talks about that they present use with a one sided view that steers public opinion away from the facts.

Brian

[Boatsb]

Hospitals need to have a set price as Brian states. Better too would be the end of the not for profit hospitals that overbill the insured and working to give free care to the poor. If they want to be benevolent than do it from their money. DO NOT OVER CHARGE ME TO GIVE FREE STUFF TO SOMEONE ELSE.

People who chose not to have insurance are like motorcyclists without helmets. They took the risk. Stabilize them and send them home. I have a neighbor with a 2 year old CTS that has no insurance by choice and goes to the hospital when she needs something so she can get it free. FYI she bought the car cash. has more than ample income but takes away from others for herself.

Oh yeah and not born in the US.

[Brian Degulis]

The problem with health "insurance" is that it is not insurance.

This problem, by the way, was created by President Nixon with wage and price controls. He essentially "fathered" the employer-linked health system.

This system makes working for a small business or as an individual rather than a large corporation ruinously expensive for health coverage, and thus dramatically disadvantages such enterprises. It also leads to millions of personal bankruptcies when you get sick between jobs or as a self-employed individual.

The solution is to force insurance companies who want to sell insurance to actually sell insurance, not pre-paid medical plans called insurance. One means of doing this is to mandate that any company selling any plan to any institution or individual must allow any person within that state to enroll in the same plan for the same price, irrespective of employment.

Second, force all providers to publish price lists and forbid billing and collection at any other than the published price. This stops the "bill an uninsured person at 500% of the insurance-reimbursed price" game that hospitals run ROUTINELY.

The uninsured guy who shows up with a heart attack and no money is a problem. The simplest solution to THAT is to pass a law allowing the hospital to bill the federal government (at their published price) for the care; the federal government immediately pays it, but that becomes a lien on the individual owed to the government (the IRS.) This stops the cost-shifting yet does not invade on the "we won't let you die" meme we have become accustomed to, and further forces complete disclosure of the cost of uninsured individuals. For non-citizens that amount is billed back to the nation of your citizenship and if the nation refuses it is directly deducted from all other foreign aid provided to that nation.

End of problem (immediately), but this destroys the cartel behavior of the health insurers, providers and physicians.

Take a good look at what Karl wrote. Those seem like very good ideas to lower the cost of health care and insurance premiums without spending a dime of taxpayer money or expanding government. There are lots of good ideas like these so why don't are elected officials embrace them? Are they looking out for us or looking out for themselves? Our next opportunity to get rid of these bastards is not to far off lets not waste it.

Brian