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  1. #21

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    Outboards huh? I could make Hatteras history, but then would come the inevitable argument as to which outboard is best.

    First, thanks again for the input. As for doing this as cheaply as possible, I'm all for that. Yes, I probably am guilty of overthinking this, but I've never gone into something without being comfortable with a worse case scenario. Money is tight right now, and I don't have another $30K to put into this boat.

    To recap, I did in fact have the heads rebuilt which was probably a waste of money since there were no problems found during the rebuild, but it wasn't that expensive in terms of insurance. They are aboard the boat and are fine.

    As I recall, the estimated cost for a complete rebuild was $16K (not including head work) when the first mechanic came into the picture. Frankly, I made the mistake of becoming friends with this guy while waiting for months for him to start. He never got far enough along to know what we really needed, and I would have been much better off had he never started. I don't want to get into a bashing deal, so I'm going to stop right here.

    I did contact this Diesel Don fellow as others including Sonny Middleton had recommended him. When I asked for an estimate, he quoted $4K per hole PLUS expenses. He started backpedaling when I told him I could buy a new longblock with warranty for $18K and had already had the heads done, but that sort of set the tone. I may be dumb, but I ain't stoopid, and trust sort of went out the window.

    YottsmanWillie needs a little winter project and a trip to God's country, so maybe... ?? Actually he's asked me to send a bunch of pictures of the engine so he could get an idea of what he's looking at. I plan to do that this week-end, and I'll post them here for all to see.

  2. Re: Repowering A 58TC

    For naturals?

    You have the engine half ripped down already if the heads are off. This should be a relatively minor job from here.

    I'd inspect the remaining bores to make sure you don't have any more with broken rings. This can be done through the airboxes since you have the top exposed. If the other hole's rings are ok and the piston crowns and bores look good I'd swap the one bad kit and bolt it back up.

    If you're going to repower I'd go with modern 4 strokes. 200-300hp/side will easily get you to hull speed with plenty of reserve. The Cummins Bs are light, reliable at that calibration, and (reasonably) inexpensive on the reman market.

    But don't kid yourself about the cost of a job like this - repowering is a major job as it involves fabrication work on the engine beds, new gears and other similar effort, plus wiring and such. Such a change would result in a HUGE amount of freed up space and a much more social boat in terms of noise and mess, but its going to be god-awful expensive compared to replacing a cylinder kit.

    In addition if you ever want to sell the boat removing its ability to plane will severely and permanently damage its value on the resale market. While I know you say "its the last boat", circumstances sometimes change.

    Think long and hard before turning the boat into something it wasn't originally.
    http://www.denninger.net - Home page with blog links and more
    http://market-ticker.org - The Market Ticker

  3. #23

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    [QUOTE=Sparky1;110301]
    First, thanks again for the input. As for doing this as cheaply as possible, I'm all for that. Yes, I probably am guilty of overthinking this, but I've never gone into something without being comfortable with a worse case scenario. Money is tight right now, and I don't have another $30K to put into this boat.

    To recap, I did in fact have the heads rebuilt which was probably a waste of money since there were no problems found during the rebuild, but it wasn't that expensive in terms of insurance. They are aboard the boat and are fine.
    QUOTE]

    Okay, now that we know that the repower is not an option financially, so let's move on. Outboards ain't cheap either, but I know you'd only need ONE anyway! LOL

    So you and Diesel Don got off on the wrong foot, no biggie. I say call him up and tell him you need ONE and ONLY ONE cylinder kit changed on your already apart engine, and put it back together with your already rebuilt heads. THAT'S IT!! Explain to him that you are on a tight budget and as much as you would love to "do it right" and rebuild the whole thing, now is not the right time and you need your boat fixed yesterday. Any mechanic worth his stuff will understand and come do the work you really need done. $4k a hole is indeed steep, but even at that I really think you could be done for $5k or even less if you kill him with kindness and southern hospitality! You may want to just simply hire him by the hour if you can be there to keep an eye and learn. Can you swing around $5k comfortably right now? If so, then I think that is YOUR BEST option by far.

    Sure you could try to pull favors from friends on this one. Certainly nothing against a very capable YachtsmanBill (who SURELY has more than enough on his plate already with this winter's Sub projects but is too darn nice to say "NO"), but it would be really wise to use the local Detroit Guru. Repair/build a relationship with him and he will always back up his work if and when you need him. You are planning on keeping the boat in the area anyway, so this is simply a good investment in your boat's mechanical future. You don't want another year to pass by without your boat being ready to use, do you?

    C'mon, we're all rallying behind you again! LET'S FIX IT THIS TIME!!!! ;-)

  4. #24

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    200-300hp/side will easily get you to hull speed with plenty of reserve.
    That's actually overkill if all you want is hull speed. To get a boat with a LWL of 52' and a displacement of 62,500 up to hull speed (9.66knots), you need a TOTAL of 124hp. Now, that is under ideal conditions...so a total of 200-250 would be great. I've actually thought that if the day ever comes for a repower on my boat, I'd go for twin 100-150hp naturals. The 130hp John Deer that a friend just dropped in his trawler burs 1.5gph at cruise. So, with twins, I could be cruising at hull speed and burning only 3gph. Sure tempting to me...
    Dave
    "Saraswati" - 1980 53MY
    Galesville, MD

  5. #25

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    In addition if you ever want to sell the boat removing its ability to plane will severely and permanently damage its value on the resale market. While I know you say "its the last boat", circumstances sometimes change.

    Think long and hard before turning the boat into something it wasn't originally.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That may be true at $2 a gallon but I'd question it at 3 or 4 or more. If you take a look at boats sales Trawlers and sailboats are doing OK. Our boats have been hit very hard. The days of cruising along at 16-18 kts burning 50 gals or $200 per hour may be coming to an end.

    If you look at his boat now even with 2 good engines it's not going to bring very much there's just to much competition. So making it the only one on the market with new smaller fuel sipping engines might be a good thing?

    That 48K you were quoted to rebuild 1 would pay for 2 of the QSB 230s brand new with gears

    Brian
    Last edited by Brian Degulis; 11-12-2008 at 11:14 AM.

  6. #26

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    Randy, I agree with Bob and others, Diesel Don can be a huge help, but he isn't cheap. Probably your most cost effective solution, given the $$$ associated with a repower. Good luck, keep us updated.
    Bear'
    1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

  7. #27

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    I would gladly pay $5K to have the starboard up and running again as it would be GREAT to do some winter cruising with BOTH engines! I can always do a repower later if things change. No doubt the scenario of JD's sipping 3 gallons per hour sounds pretty darn good, but it would take a loong time to recoup that investment.

    Even if I don't end up with a perfect engine after one cylinder kit, my planing days are over with this boat on the river. I actually had some jackass complaining about my wake at 8 mph during my last trip to Chattanooga. This from his house on channel 16 when I was running at night "eroding his shoreline". Factor that with current fuel prices and I'm a hull speed kinda guy now.

    Maybe I should give ole' Diesel Don another call despite my first impression of him as being somebody who would bend me over if I'd let him. Worse case scenario is he'll check the engine and find more wrong with it than I'm aware of, and I'll be back to square one. Gotta start somewhere and maybe his work load is light with winter approaching. I'll give him a call right now and report back.

  8. #28

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    Just got off the phone with Don. At first, he said he wouldn't be interested in doing just a single cylinder kit. Seems he's worried about his reputation and would worry that I might badmouth him if my engine goes south after he works on it.

    I assured him that unless the cylinder kit he installs or the re-assembly is the problem, I wouldn't expect him to warranty the engine in any way, shape, or form. After talking a bit more, he came around to my way of thinking. He'll be putting me on his schedule and hopefully will have some time to check things out within the next 30 days or so. He's doing a rebuild in Florida right now.

    BTW, his labor rate is $90 per hour, and he charges $1.00 per mile both ways for travel. Sounds like he lives about 60 miles away from my boat, so we'll see how things work out. If nothing else I'll know what I have to work with after he checks things over. I wish Roger (captddis' friend) wasn't so far away as he really seemed to know his stuff as well. Maybe he could use a trip to God's country too.

  9. #29

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    $1 per mile?! Eek! That's ridiculous.
    Dave
    "Saraswati" - 1980 53MY
    Galesville, MD

  10. #30

    Re: Repowering A 58TC

    Is that $1./mile PLUS the hourly rate for the travel time? If so that is craziness.

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