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46 Convertible refit begins
Hi All,The dream of refitting the 46 became a reality yesterday when we finally put the old girl on a hard stand in western Sydney. My friend Mick D and I are joint owners of the boat and we intend on doing most of the work ourselves.Our plan is to repower and completely refit the boat including rewire and complete fitout. At this stage we are assuming a 3 year project but would hope to do it again in 2. We are now focused on planing the refit and deciding on engine options and all other aspects on the boat. We would appreciate any feedback from you guys in relation to any ideas or advice on this build.I’m not familiar with forums so bare with me as I will try and post some photos and videos for you guys to see.Looking forward to the journey and I would like to share it with some like minded people. Regards Mick C and twin Detroit’s ( Mick D )
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Re: 46 Convertible refit Sydney photos
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Dont do anything until you have a plan. It's not the best idea to start without a complete plan.
Engines depend on what you want in performance and the hull will need mods to go to higher HP engines.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Have loads of fun guys.
P
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
As far as engine and generator choices, that's to some extent guided by what dealers you have in OZ and who will service them. All other things being equal, most people here would probably recommend Cummins M11s. Here in the USA, they are available on a factory 'reman' program which saves you some money. Cummins diesels are very reliable and they have been in the marine market for a very long time.
If the original Detroits are in good shape and run well, you might want to just clean up the engine room and keep them. Are they healthy?
Most important- have you guys done this kind of thing before? These are fairly complex boats and everything on them is old now...
Have fun with it all. Hatteras Yachts are very well made, and since you are down under, you won't see yourself coming and going all the time...
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
If you guys are in Sydney Au. You should get in touch with Scott in Sydney on this site. He is in the process of rehabbing a Hatteras Motor Yacht and has a lot of contacts in the marine industry, and besides he a nice guy. John
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
I have a 1974 46C that we redid. The Hatteras electrical wiring is very robust and I would investigate fully before ripping any of it out. We redid some wiring from the wiring blocks to the use for the wiring. We put digital voltage & amp gauges on the electric panel after we moved it from the floor of the salon to the top of the narrow closet going down the steps to below.Attachment 33443Attachment 33444Attachment 33445Attachment 33443Attachment 33444Attachment 33445
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
I take it that you’re trucking the boat somewhere since you removed the bridge. What is the budget for the refit? Take plenty of pictures, please.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boatsb
Dont do anything until you have a plan. It's not the best idea to start without a complete plan.Engines depend on what you want in performance and the hull will need mods to go to higher HP engines.
Hi Sam,We have a reasonably good plan so far. We only require the boat to be a harbour cruiser so we don’t have any real intention to take it off shore for fishing etc but we will need it to be able to cruise up the coast on the odd occasion. We were thinking of Detroit 60 series engines which should give us 600 or 700 hp depending on how we rebuild them? We are open for suggestions though.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
osprey
Have loads of fun guys. P
Thanks for that. We are pretty excited about it.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
As far as engine and generator choices, that's to some extent guided by what dealers you have in OZ and who will service them. All other things being equal, most people here would probably recommend Cummins M11s. Here in the USA, they are available on a factory 'reman' program which saves you some money. Cummins diesels are very reliable and they have been in the marine market for a very long time. If the original Detroits are in good shape and run well, you might want to just clean up the engine room and keep them. Are they healthy?Most important- have you guys done this kind of thing before? These are fairly complex boats and everything on them is old now...Have fun with it all. Hatteras Yachts are very well made, and since you are down under, you won't see yourself coming and going all the time...
Hi Jim,Thanks for your message. We do have all the major engine manufacturers here and from what I know now cats/Volvo’s / Cummins/ would cost us about 160 k au and the yanmars would be about 40 k cheaper. We don’t want to spend this amount of money. We intend purchasing older engines / 8v 92 Detroit’s or we think that 60 series Detroit’s may be good ?? Whatever we get we will 100 % recondition so we don’t have any problems in the future. We are open for suggestions though. The 8v 71 need rebuilding and as you know very thirsty. I own an engineering company and I’m a Deisel mechanic by trade and Mick D the other owner has experience in medical gas and equipment installation and has done quite a bit of spray painting etc, so we should have most of the skills required.Regards Mick C
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scarlett
If you guys are in Sydney Au. You should get in touch with Scott in Sydney on this site. He is in the process of rehabbing a Hatteras Motor Yacht and has a lot of contacts in the marine industry, and besides he a nice guy. John
Hi John,Scott has already touched base with me and has already helped me out. And yes seems like a good guy. Must be a Hatteras owner thing !! Thanks for your email. Regards Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
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Originally Posted by
tomrealest
Hi Tom, Thanks for your email. We had already removed a lot of wiring from the engine bay etc and when removing the fly bridge we cut a lot out as well. We intend to just about strip the boat to a bare hull and start again. The wiring had years and years of add ons so it was areal mess.Thanks for the photos. Your boat looks great. Regards Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dsharp
I take it that you’re trucking the boat somewhere since you removed the bridge. What is the budget for the refit? Take plenty of pictures, please.
Hi,Thanks for your message. Yes we had to remove the flybridge to get it under the bridges and power lines here in Sydney. Had to be then transported early in the morning as a wide load wit escort vehicles. I don’t have a lot of photos of the removal but it was reasonably easier than I thought.Fortunately most of the screws up under the browe and the screws holding the flybridge down to the roof of the saloon came out easily. We had to disconnect some stainless hand rails as well. We disconnect/ cut all the wiring and hoses that went from the helm station down into the saloon and then down to the engine room. We then jacked off the the deck to the underside of the browe to make sure it was free before we attached to the crane. I think the flybridge has been removed before as there wasn’t much sealant holding it down (fortunately) . All in all it was easier than we expected. We then placed the flybridge on car tyres on the bow for transport.Allowing that we only intend to spend about 50 k au on engines our budget looks to be running at around 250 k Au allowing that we do most of the work ourselves. Keep in mind we intend to strip the boat back to a bare hull and start again. Regards Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Do not do all that work and stick 2strokes back in it.
Series 60s would be very nice...get the bigger ones (I think ~15liters?)
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Are Series 60s still available where you are? They were very popular engines with North Carolina charter boat captains, which tells you something about their reliability and economy. As he says, get the bigger ones- 600-700 hp per engine would get you excellent performance and economy both.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mick c
Hi,Thanks for your message. Yes we had to remove the flybridge to get it under the bridges and power lines here in Sydney. Had to be then transported early in the morning as a wide load wit escort vehicles. I don’t have a lot of photos of the removal but it was reasonably easier than I thought.Fortunately most of the screws up under the browe and the screws holding the flybridge down to the roof of the saloon came out easily. We had to disconnect some stainless hand rails as well. We disconnect/ cut all the wiring and hoses that went from the helm station down into the saloon and then down to the engine room. We then jacked off the the deck to the underside of the browe to make sure it was free before we attached to the crane. I think the flybridge has been removed before as there wasn’t much sealant holding it down (fortunately) . All in all it was easier than we expected. We then placed the flybridge on car tyres on the bow for transport.Allowing that we only intend to spend about 50 k au on engines our budget looks to be running at around 250 k Au allowing that we do most of the work ourselves. Keep in mind we intend to strip the boat back to a bare hull and start again. Regards Michael
Until I saw this post, I was tempted to make a joke about "that's not a refit...THIS is a refit" (pronounced in Mick Dundee fashion...knife scene in NYC, with a link to my Roamer post.:p
It's been my experience that with enough effort, you can get good running Cummins Diamonds and gears in that price range, but I don't know if 450~480hp is enough to push the Hatt 46. With the skill set you and your mate bring to the game, I think you'll be able to pull it off for that overall budget.
As to whether or not you can do it in 2~3 years...I hope you do, and I'll be watching every update! But if you splash before me, I'll be very impressed! lol
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
450-480 hp/side isn't really enough. I think the boat would just about plane, maybe... M11s, for my money. Or theirs. But they cost quite a bit more. I think Series 60s are a great idea, esp if he can major them himself..
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
8.3 cummins are too small for the 46c. I have 8.3 in my 41c which is much lighter and a more efficient hull that requires less HP (flat ass).
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
krush
Do not do all that work and stick 2strokes back in it.Series 60s would be very nice...get the bigger ones (I think ~15liters?)
Your right there. We defiantly would like to get about 600 hp with electronic engines. I’ve been told that the 60 series are higher and may not fit in the engine room? Do you know anyone who has fitted these?
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
q240z
Until I saw this post, I was tempted to make a joke about "that's not a refit...THIS is a refit" (pronounced in Mick Dundee fashion...knife scene in NYC, with a link to my Roamer post.:pIt's been my experience that with enough effort, you can get good running Cummins Diamonds and gears in that price range, but I don't know if 450~480hp is enough to push the Hatt 46. With the skill set you and your mate bring to the game, I think you'll be able to pull it off for that overall budget.As to whether or not you can do it in 2~3 years...I hope you do, and I'll be watching every update! But if you splash before me, I'll be very impressed! lol
Lol I know that scene in the movie very well. Yes I think we will need about 600 hp. We are very much filled with hope and optimism at the moment so I also hope that doesn’t change. Thanks for showing interest. M
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
q240z
Until I saw this post, I was tempted to make a joke about "that's not a refit...THIS is a refit" (pronounced in Mick Dundee fashion...knife scene in NYC, with a link to my Roamer post.:pIt's been my experience that with enough effort, you can get good running Cummins Diamonds and gears in that price range, but I don't know if 450~480hp is enough to push the Hatt 46. With the skill set you and your mate bring to the game, I think you'll be able to pull it off for that overall budget.As to whether or not you can do it in 2~3 years...I hope you do, and I'll be watching every update! But if you splash before me, I'll be very impressed! lol
I just checked out your entire blog and yes you defiantly have the bigger knife. Fantastic project and really well done. Really looking forward to seeing your progress. Regards Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
You ought to see it in person. What he's done is amazing. I have seen several refits done in professional yards which don't get close to what he's done working alone, teaching himself along the way.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Thanks Mick for keeping us in the "loop" on your refit. We all look forward to watching the restoration
of one of our favorite boats. Please post progress report with lots of pictures...
Walt
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walter P
Thanks Mick for keeping us in the "loop" on your refit. We all look forward to watching the restorationof one of our favorite boats. Please post progress report with lots of pictures...Walt
Thanks Walt, we will defiantly post photos as we get some progress. We are only working on the boat on the weekends so progress is slow. Just the strip out is quite a big job but I must say very satisfying to do. Thanks for your interest in our project. Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
You ought to see it in person. What he's done is amazing. I have seen several refits done in professional yards which don't get close to what he's done working alone, teaching himself along the way.
Hi Jim, we intend to do a trip to the us to go boat spotting so we just might do that. Next year sometime I would say. Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boatsb
Dont do anything until you have a plan. It's not the best idea to start without a complete plan.Engines depend on what you want in performance and the hull will need mods to go to higher HP engines.
Hi Scott,What type of mods need to be carried out on the hull. We are trying to spec the drive line to achieve 30 knots ?
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Hi Mick,
I have been following all your emails and the replies from other owners. You must show photos as forum members pour over them.
Did you mean myself, scottinsydney, regarding drivetrain mods and achieving 30 knots? If so then I need to tell you that I am a motor yacht kind of guy and use a speedboat for the kids' thrills and spills.
The answer to your question relates to horsepower, shaft size and propping. The Convertible members could do the calcs for you. There may be a maximum speed the hull is able to achieve too without becoming unstable/tailwalking
30 knots on Sydney Harbour?...oh yes please!
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
I don't know what sort of performance Hatteras got from the 46 convertibles; I know that there was a high-performance version with 8-92s in her, I think, and those boats were faster. Those kinds of speeds (thirty knots plus) are easily achieved with the 45 Series 2 convertibles, which have a different hull form and I think are a bit lighter. I don't know if 600hp x2 will get you to thirty knots. I don't know what Series 60s weigh. Part of the advantage of the Cummins M11s is that they are lighter engines, esp for the power they deliver, but they are also much more money.
My uneducated and imprecise guess is that you could get to a 25 knot cruise without too much difficulty. 30kt cruise might be quite a bit harder. You would be limited by shaft size, how much room there is under the boat for the wheels, hull form, all the underwater hardware. On the plus side, some of the best driveline manufacturers (Veem, Austral) are right in your backyard, so to speak, so you will have access to all the best technology, probably less expensively than we get it up here. Regardless, it's going to be a very interesting project.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
I don't know what sort of performance Hatteras got from the 46 convertibles; I know that there was a high-performance version with 8-92s in her, I think, and those boats were faster. Those kinds of speeds (thirty knots plus) are easily achieved with the 45 Series 2 convertibles, which have a different hull form and I think are a bit lighter. I don't know if 600hp x2 will get you to thirty knots. I don't know what Series 60s weigh. Part of the advantage of the Cummins M11s is that they are lighter engines, esp for the power they deliver, but they are also much more money.
My uneducated and imprecise guess is that you could get to a 25 knot cruise without too much difficulty. 30kt cruise might be quite a bit harder. You would be limited by shaft size, how much room there is under the boat for the wheels, hull form, all the underwater hardware. On the plus side, some of the best driveline manufacturers (Veem, Austral) are right in your backyard, so to speak, so you will have access to all the best technology, probably less expensively than we get it up here. Regardless, it's going to be a very interesting project.
I have a 45 Series 2 convertibles with Cummins QSM11 660hp 2" shaft that I purchased in New Orleans area 4 years ago. At sea trial in Lake Pontchartrain, we reached 30 knot@2,350 rpm. After taking the boat to Rep. of Panama, I found it over-propped and could only get 26 knot@2,200 rpm (for some reason it happens with many boats when they are moved to Rep. of Panama, maybe due to high humidity, I do not know).
I have now gone from 28x32 prop to 28x30 and to 28x28 prop and get 26 knot@2,350rpm and ithe engines are also right on the fuel curve, I have also added a dinghy.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
I have a 1982 46 HP with the 8-92's. Top speed is 27 KTS but not getting full RPM either due to a less than honest bottom diver or it seems port side not getting full throttle or both. Was told it was 30KT boat new. Cruise is 20KTS at 1750-1800 RPM.
A similar HP modern engine would give same top end but higher cruise since they can run higher RPM's than a DD at cruise. I would guess a 23-24KT cruise which IMO is plenty fast. If serious fishing I could see the need for higher HP and speeds. Otherwise we are quite happy at 20KTS. Owners preference and needs are the deciding factors.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottinsydney
Hi Mick,I have been following all your emails and the replies from other owners. You must show photos as forum members pour over them.Did you mean myself, scottinsydney, regarding drivetrain mods and achieving 30 knots? If so then I need to tell you that I am a motor yacht kind of guy and use a speedboat for the kids' thrills and spills.The answer to your question relates to horsepower, shaft size and propping. The Convertible members could do the calcs for you. There may be a maximum speed the hull is able to achieve too without becoming unstable/tailwalking30 knots on Sydney Harbour?...oh yes please!
Hi Scott,Ive been struggling a little with the forum format but I’m just starting to get my head around it. I agree that I need to post more photos and I will try and get them on tonight. I did try and post a video but I couldn’t seem to get up there.Maybe I’ve got the wrong Scott? I did see a post to me which commented on tailwalking above around 26 knots. He mentioned some mods to the hull as our hull is not a HP version unlike ( Good Grief ) which I have seen and read a lot about.It’s not that I really want to do 30 knots but it seems like a good number to target. The boat is out at Glendenning now so if your ever around I would love to catch up with you to discuss all things Hatteras. I am picking up a new Brigg Eagle 8 in November so alternatively it would be great to swing by and have a look at your boat. Regards Michael
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
madhatter1
I have a 1982 46 HP with the 8-92's. Top speed is 27 KTS but not getting full RPM either due to a less than honest bottom diver or it seems port side not getting full throttle or both. Was told it was 30KT boat new. Cruise is 20KTS at 1750-1800 RPM. A similar HP modern engine would give same top end but higher cruise since they can run higher RPM's than a DD at cruise. I would guess a 23-24KT cruise which IMO is plenty fast. If serious fishing I could see the need for higher HP and speeds. Otherwise we are quite happy at 20KTS. Owners preference and needs are the deciding factors.
Hi, we actually have no intention of using the boat for fishing and it will just be cruising the harbour and maybe an occasional coastal run. It just the rev head I us that we would like to achieve the 30 knots but it’s not that important but if we are searching for new engines then we might as well use that as our benchmark.regards Mick
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
The boat is in place at our Workshop in Wesern Sydney where we are fortunate enough to have plenty of room and all the facility’s we need to carry out the project. It’s just about time and money now.We have started to strip out the boat and I must say it is a bigger job than I imagined but we have enjoyed every moment of it. Hopefully when we can both get a full weekend we will remove the engines and start refreshing the engine bay and the rest of the hull.Keep you posted as we go. Thanks for showing interest and helping out with your advice. Regards Mick C
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
The HP will do right about 30knots in good shape....just look at this one: https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/sh...ots-on-the-bay
Quote:
It is a 1983 46C HP model with 650 HP 8V92s. When it was new it would hit 33kt on the Northstar. The pic was taken by my friend on his 1985 45C, after he took pics of me, we took pics of his boat. Dave
And other cruise pics: https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/sh...s-on-the-water
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
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Originally Posted by
krush
I read somewhere that the non HP hull like ours gets into trouble at around 26 knots? Have you heard what mods they do I prove the handling? M
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Remove 3 foot of keel aft and knife the front of it.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
The thread krush posted link to is the one I own. Right now I am only getting 2150 RPM on port and 2275 on starboard while reaching 27kts. So when we fix whatever is holding back port I should reach the 29 kts Dave was getting. We don’t carry a bunch of junk on the boat so not sure how it is 4 kts off of what it reached new. Maybe that run was with empty water, holding, and aux tanks.
Anyway if you go in the 600-700HP range you get an idea on performance. As for modification to the hull on the HP the only one I am aware of is the “ cut down keel”. Don’t know if hull was built this way or modified after.
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Re: 46 Convertible refit begins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearl Island
I have a 45 Series 2 convertibles with Cummins QSM11 660hp 2" shaft that I purchased in New Orleans area 4 years ago. At sea trial in Lake Pontchartrain, we reached 30 knot@2,350 rpm. After taking the boat to Rep. of Panama, I found it over-propped and could only get 26 knot@2,200 rpm (for some reason it happens with many boats when they are moved to Rep. of Panama, maybe due to high humidity, I do not know).
I have now gone from 28x32 prop to 28x30 and to 28x28 prop and get 26 knot@2,350rpm and ithe engines are also right on the fuel curve, I have also added a dinghy.
We have another forum member, Captain Coop, with a similar boat, with M11s. I believe she did 34 kts on her sea trials, and was only up to 94% load, if I remember accurately. The 45 Series 2 hull is faster potentially than the 46HP, but perhaps not quite as sturdy. This is a relative matter as I have never seen a Hatteras yacht which one could describe as fragile, or not sturdy.