Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan Mapes
It looks as though they made it into Cabbage Key for lunch. The FB page for Cabbage has a photo of the boat docked?
I haven’t looked at the Cabbage Key site, but it looked like they were heading in vs out. Like Oscar said, they probably know the insurance company won’t bother to challenge them.
This guy screwed up when he posted those photos and their criteria for determining a salvage situation. I would LOVE to hear the salvagee’s (like that word?) side of this story. I’m a member of TowBoat US and will call them later. If they don’t want to own up to this and make it right, maybe I’ll make them famous. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, I have a thing for hypocrites and liars.
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Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan Mapes
It looks as though they made it into Cabbage Key for lunch. The FB page for Cabbage has a photo of the boat docked?
Yep, here is the photo dated 1/6, but it was likely taken earlier. Maybe they came in and out more than once. Sure is a beautiful boat.
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
You guys are a little confused on the term "Salvage". To state that a job is "Salvage" does not mean that it will pay based on a percentage of the vessels post or pre salvage value. It does not mean that any particular degree of peril was associated with the vessel or placed upon the salvors. A salvage job can and most of the time is quoted before the first pump, bag or diver is employed. Many times it's actually cleared with the insurance carrier before work begins. The interwebs have trained recreational boaters to believe that "Salvage" automatically means that pirates are on scene and they will hold your boat until a ransom of 50% of the pre salvage value is received in unmarked bills.
Randy, have you spoke with the master of the Hatteras? Did they agree to the charges beforehand?
What you guys are implying is that the Salvor is claiming a high order salvage and didn't discuss that with the vessels master. If that is the case and the photos are accurate... yes that is BS. Little to no peril to the vessel, the salvor has all of the time in the world to respond, marginal amount of risk to the salvor, etc.
If there was no paperwork signed and the master or insurance carrier choose to fight the salvage claim (if there is one) they have many options. The case would either end up in arbitration with marine salvage arbitrators or it could be bound to federal court. At which point it would be assigned a salvage reward equal to what the salvor would have got if they did it the right way to start. So why would they bother.
Now, if this same vessel was grounded in the middle of a wide open sound with wind meeting the tide and a storm coming in... Let the old girl start to bounce on her own bottom in 6' chop and now you have a high order salvage with a probable environmental uplift if she's packing a bunch of diesel.
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
And don't get me wrong, there are good salvors and bad salvors. I'm not defending anyone. I'm just trying to clarify what I see as a possible misunderstanding.
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Capt Chad
You guys are a little confused on the term "Salvage". To state that a job is "Salvage" does not mean that it will pay based on a percentage of the vessels post or pre salvage value. It does not mean that any particular degree of peril was associated with the vessel or placed upon the salvors. A salvage job can and most of the time is quoted before the first pump, bag or diver is employed. Many times it's actually cleared with the insurance carrier before work begins. The interwebs have trained recreational boaters to believe that "Salvage" automatically means that pirates are on scene and they will hold your boat until a ransom of 50% of the pre salvage value is received in unmarked bills.
Randy, have you spoke with the master of the Hatteras? Did they agree to the charges beforehand?
What you guys are implying is that the Salvor is claiming a high order salvage and didn't discuss that with the vessels master. If that is the case and the photos are accurate... yes that is BS. Little to no peril to the vessel, the salvor has all of the time in the world to respond, marginal amount of risk to the salvor, etc.
If there was no paperwork signed and the master or insurance carrier choose to fight the salvage claim (if there is one) they have many options. The case would either end up in arbitration with marine salvage arbitrators or it could be bound to federal court. At which point it would be assigned a salvage reward equal to what the salvor would have got if they did it the right way to start. So why would they bother.
Now, if this same vessel was grounded in the middle of a wide open sound with wind meeting the tide and a storm coming in... Let the old girl start to bounce on her own bottom in 6' chop and now you have a high order salvage with a probable environmental uplift if she's packing a bunch of diesel.
You are confirming my story. All the "salvor" did was throw a line over and pull my buddy out. No discussion or agreement, no paperwork. And they sent the bill directly to his insurance company. (My buddy made the mistake of giving them his insurance information. Second lesson learned.) And the amount was low enough where it wasn't worth fighting. It's a racket.
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oscarvan
You are confirming my story. All the "salvor" did was throw a line over and pull my buddy out. No discussion or agreement, no paperwork. And they sent the bill directly to his insurance company. (My buddy made the mistake of giving them his insurance information. Second lesson learned.) And the amount was low enough where it wasn't worth fighting. It's a racket.
It’s 2021, what isn’t a racket?
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Capt Chad
You guys are a little confused on the term "Salvage". To state that a job is "Salvage" does not mean that it will pay based on a percentage of the vessels post or pre salvage value. It does not mean that any particular degree of peril was associated with the vessel or placed upon the salvors. A salvage job can and most of the time is quoted before the first pump, bag or diver is employed. Many times it's actually cleared with the insurance carrier before work begins. The interwebs have trained recreational boaters to believe that "Salvage" automatically means that pirates are on scene and they will hold your boat until a ransom of 50% of the pre salvage value is received in unmarked bills.
Randy, have you spoke with the master of the Hatteras? Did they agree to the charges beforehand?
What you guys are implying is that the Salvor is claiming a high order salvage and didn't discuss that with the vessels master. If that is the case and the photos are accurate... yes that is BS. Little to no peril to the vessel, the salvor has all of the time in the world to respond, marginal amount of risk to the salvor, etc.
If there was no paperwork signed and the master or insurance carrier choose to fight the salvage claim (if there is one) they have many options. The case would either end up in arbitration with marine salvage arbitrators or it could be bound to federal court. At which point it would be assigned a salvage reward equal to what the salvor would have got if they did it the right way to start. So why would they bother.
Now, if this same vessel was grounded in the middle of a wide open sound with wind meeting the tide and a storm coming in... Let the old girl start to bounce on her own bottom in 6' chop and now you have a high order salvage with a probable environmental uplift if she's packing a bunch of diesel.
First, I think you may getting confused with the term, salvage, as it applies to this or any other maritime situation. It's an either or with towing companies, and one pays WAY more than the other, at least as a rule.
Second, I haven't been able to track down the owner but would still love to hear his story. I do know they were a member of TowBoat US. Nobody in their right mind would agree to a salvage scenario in that situation. TowBoat US never returned my call from this morning.
Third, the photos were posted by the Captain who referred to this as a salvage and put forth the criteria I posted.
We all understand the different scenarios that can lead to a tow becoming a salvage situation, but this obviously wasn't one. Do you by chance work for a towing company?
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Capt Chad
And don't get me wrong, there are good salvors and bad salvors. I'm not defending anyone. I'm just trying to clarify what I see as a possible misunderstanding.
Give us an example of what that misunderstanding may have been. The guy deleting his Facebook post pretty much said it all, IMO. He was defending this as a salvage by the definition he posted.
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Here's what Google had to say about the definition of salvage as it pertains to maritime law.
Salvage, in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuer’s assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved.
Salvage | maritime law | Britannica
www.britannica.com/topic/salvage
Re: Questionable Salvage On 58TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freeebird
Here's what Google had to say about the definition of salvage as it pertains to maritime law.Salvage, in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuer’s assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved.Salvage | maritime law | Britannica
www.britannica.com/topic/salvage
Please don’t confuse your google search with a law degree.