Water Tank Guages

[Pat]

None of the (direct reading) guages on my water tanks work. Is there any way to rebuild them? Before I break the seal on the tank, I'd like to know what I'm looking for.
thanks.
Pat
1977 53 Classic MY

[Dick]

Steve McPherson was very helpful when I needed to replace a fuel tank guage. It was a "float" type affair with a bobber that rose and dropped depending on the amount of fuel. That action in turn caused the guage to move. I found that it wasn't extremely accurate, but better than nothing.

I assume the water tank guages are the same, but not certain. Again, Steve may be able to help. The guage simply screws off. Remove the entire assembly and measure the length for the replacement.

Please let us know if that's what you find, as my fwd water tank guage is also broken!

[Pat]

I just talked to Sam's, and it sounds like the fix for the water tanks is the same as for the fuel tanks. New inserts/rails that run a float up and down. $110 to $160 per tank depending on tank depth.
So it's either that, or go to an all new digital setup.
Pat

[otseketa]

Take a look at Tank Tenders. They are pneumatic guages and are extremely accurate. You can monitor all fule water and waste tanks from one guage. You'll find their ads in the back of most boating mags. I have them and can guage the amount of fluids in the tanks down to within a few gallons

[dmohring]

I have just gone digital for my fuel read outs on my 53MY. The company I used is www.centroidproducts.com. I used them on my Viking, but used analog gauges rather than digital. Go to their web site and decide for yourself.

Diedrich

[PVBud]

We replaced both the sender unit and gauge. It came as a kit from Napa Auto Parts. (About $45.00) Remove the existing sender unit, (important, first mark the rotational direction of the existing sender on the tank), measure the depth of the tank and adjust the new sender unit accordingly. Measure the depth of the tank before purchasing the new sender unit as the depth of the tank is critical to properly purchase and adjust the new sender unit prior to installing it. Also notice any obstructions within the tank, ie, engine and generator supply pipes, and the like, as you remove the existing sender unit so that you may install the new one properly...Best wishes with your new gauges.
PVBud

[Pat]

Does anyone have any experience with Snake River's UltraGuage Ultra 8? Electronic monitoring for up to 8 tanks. West Marine carries them.
3 fresh water, 2 holding, and 2 fuel tanks. It seems this would cover them all.

[captdaveg]

sams marine has the gagues in stock. there are two different sizes. 11" and 16" I think. I just bought some for my 36' S/F. they were about $120.00 ea. ouch.

[Dick]

Bugs Too:

Sorry, I responded to the wrong thread. This is the one you were searching for.

[MV Salty Dame]

If used on water tanks I believe the steel internal parts on most fuel tank senders ( napa etc. ) will rust and fail very soon

[Mike]

I have not used the system, but have one being installed on my boat. My dealer is highly recommending the system due to its accuracy and tendancy not to foul. He did say, however, that the guage used to monitor the waste tank needs to be re-programmed about every 6 months for some reason.

[scott]

Do not use aluminum or steel senders in the water tanks. Get a new VDO from Steve and you are good to go.

[sitsue]

I'm looking for a way to measure fuel comsumption in a RC Boat. The tanks are custom made of aluminum and only whole about 3/4 of a quart, I'm looking for some kind of guage I can install that is small enough to work, any suggestion please??

[jim rosenthal]

...what about weighing the boat before and after yourun it? A good digital scale might help you a lot more than tank gauges.

[Pat]

I installed this unit, and it works perfect. Nothing goes in the tank, only two foil strips running vertically on the exterior of the tank (connected by 18ga wire to the control head).
I installed on my two waste tanks because they were easy to reach. I'm waiting for the off season to get to the sides of my fresh water tanks.
You have to program each tank you configure (once). Empty the tank, and "tell" the unit it's empty. Fill the tank, and "tell" the unit it's full. Now it knows the range of each tank. Works nice. I've only had to program the unit once.

[scott]

Buy the staninless steel untis from Sams Marine. Orignially tried aluminum that you would use in a gas or diesel tank. It went out in a month with corrosion.

[Nonchalant1]

Be careful on your water tank gauge seals. You have to make or buy a thin, large, heavy gauge, flat wrench to hold the bottom nut so you can get a large socket wrench on the top nut to turn it to remove the gauge unit. Otherwise, you'll spin the whole thing and break the epoxy which holds it onto the tank. The wrench to make is lke one of the rudder shaft adjusting wrenches that came with your boat.

Doug
1978 53MY

PS I got the snake river acugage ultra 8 for my waste tanks. They said it needed internal gauge sending pipes, which are sealed PVC and don't get fouled or rusted. They said you'd need that for our water tans too because it's rough fiberglass and the exterior tape type needs a smooth tank to work well.

[jim rosenthal]

Uh oh. I have the same problem. The water tank float gauge doesn't work and I can't turn it. I am soaking it with PB Blaster hoping it will loosen up so I can get it out and put the new one in. I thought the water tank was aluminum, but it looks like it is fiberglass.

[Genesis]

Mine doesn't work either; the float is waterlogged.

I was able to get it out though without tearing up the flange. Now the question is what I want to do about it in terms of a replacement. There is no access to the sides of the tank, so the "strip style" gauges are out.

I'd like something that can be read remotely..... Am thinking of a Snake River gauge pack with their "dip tube" gauges, but haven't decided yet.

Sams wants north of $100 for the original mechanical-style gauge.

[Dustoff44]

I guess that "new" is relative with classic motor-yachts. Sams has both the original cork floats and a newer float that will not water log and has improved corrosion resistance with not much difference in price. Also the last two digits of the part number located on the upper nut of the flange is the length in inches of the probe. So you can order replacements before removing the old sending unit. It also saves measuring tank to get other probes like the Snake River units.
A word of caution do not even think about loosening those nuts with a full or near full tank. Unless you like diesel in the bilge.

[adaily3224]

Jim,

When you figure out how to get the float mechanism out of the tank let us know. Mine is firmly stuck, won't turn a bit and I'm afraid to apply too much pressure for fear of tearing everything apart. It's my water tank that's effected, the tank is in the hull so there aren't many alternatives to the original stock set up.
By the way does anyone know if a 1988 36' has two water tanks, on one fill? There are two vents in the hull that spew water when the tank is full. I have been thinking that there are two tanks tied together with an equalization pipe?Thanks Tony

[jim rosenthal]

...first I tried getting the float gauge out with wrenches etc. Didn't budge. Then I tried soaking the threads with PB Blaster, which usually works...no help. Then I tied Kroil, which my vintage car friends swear by. No help. Then I tried more muscle and different kinds of wrenches. Still in there. I'm still stuck.
This tank is fiberglass, which is a blessing, I thought it would be aluminum. We are going to try to find a socket which will fit over the 8pt gauge that is now in there (the new one is 6pt). If that doesn't loosen it, I will get it out by cutting around the bronze bushing that is glassed into the tank roof, and then find a piece of fiberglass scrap that is big enough to cover the hole, and glass a new bushing into that, and repair the hole in the tank etc. This has turned into one of these major ordeals which has tools all over the boat, etc etc. Total PIA, I am sorry to say. Even if I could get a better purchase on it, that is to say even if it were not down in that little recess in the galley floor, I think wrenching on it really hard would just break it off. I would rather have a hole in the tank roof that I made, than cracks that go all the way down, God forbid, and have to pull the tank to glass it back together. THAT would be a real trial. I am open to ideas if anyone has any. I am reluctant to use heat in there, unless maybe my heat gun- I am afraid a propane torch in there will set something afire. >:

[Waveaway]

Jim,
I had this same problem with both fuel tank gauges. My solution was to use %%WORD12%@, then heat at the same time as using a LARGE socket, purchased from Sears on a 3/4 inch drive. This socket fit perfectly avoiding and possible damage to the nut and gave the grip needed. I also had to use a 4' equalizer bar to gain the leverage needed. This worked on both tanks in my 43' DCMY. I too used a heat gun in lieu of torch. Both freed up with no jerking, just steady (lots) of pressure.
George:D

[Genesis]

I used a large socket from Sears, along with my torque wrench - this allowed me to pay attention to the amount of force being applied, gave me the lever arm I needed, and allowed smooth application of torque.

The key is to make sure the force is applied rotationally ONLY. These things bind like crazy if there is ANY offset to the force applied to them, and are almost impossible to remove in that case.

Mine came out without the use of heat - previous attempts using a pipe wrench (!) did nothing except frustrate me.

The flange on my tank is bolted in around the circumference of the hole. If I was to tear it up getting the gauge out, the damage would almost certainly have been limited to the flange mounting, allowing a fairly simple repair.

As it was it came out without too much drama once I had the proper tools.

I'm still debating what to replace it with - I am leaning more and more towards the Snake River system since its not THAT much more expensive than a couple of replacement mechanicals from Sams.

[jim rosenthal]

I appreciate the advice of the last few posts; we are trying to find a socket big enough to go over it, and then will try with 3/4" drive and extension bar. I'll also try the heat gun. The new gauge I bought from Sam's has a better float which I think will last longer. I actually like the direct-reading tank gauges because they are simpler and work for a long time. When I finally get the old one out, I am going to put something on the threads to make it removeable much more easily next time- either Antiseize or Teflon tape.

[Mike36c]

Jim, I have a series one 36 also, what size is your water tank sender? I would love to have a replacement before removing my original sender and concerning thread anti-seize, Tef-gel works like magic. Mike

[Genesis]

They have the 2-3/8" socket in 3/4" drive.

[salty]

fireboy makes tank monitors also. use it for the holding tank and like it. will be hooking up the freshwater monitor now that my bubble gauge went south this year.

www.aetnaengineering.com/liquid.htm (http://www.aetnaengineering.com/liquid.htm)

[jim rosenthal]

..unfortunately the old float gauge head is EIGHT points, not six, otherwise the 2 3/8 socket would fit. We are trying to find a bigger socket that will hold it well enough to get it out. The new gauge is six points on top. Either this is a very old gauge or someone replaced it before I owned the boat with the gauge with the eight point head. Try finding an eight-point socket 2 3/8"...scarce to say the least. Tef-Gel is a good idea. When I finally get the old one out, and don't hold your breath, I will use that putting the new one in.

[Nonchalant1]

Has the original sight gauge and a "twinsite" replacement which reads at the tank and sends to a standard type fuel gauge by wires. You can use SW fuel gauges that match the twinsite senders, available from auto supply places. You can also install the Snake River type senders by replacing the original unit with their closed system PVC pipe sensor. I got the Snake River gauges for my waste tanks.

See above on how to remove water tank sensors.

Doug Shuman
1978 53MY

[tomfishn]

Hi, I have a 1983 36 foot Hatteras and it has two vent also. I contacted Bruce Angel at Hatteras and he faxed me the drawing of the water tank and it is one single tank mounted in the center of the vessel. Be very careful of the sender. I have been thru 2 of the ones from Sam's Marine and the second one has now failed. I do not know what the problem is however $120.00 a pop is not fun. Thank you, Tom

[maynardrupp]

I recently rebuilt my water tank gage. You need a 23/4" socket, breaker bar, 2 feet and a big grunt to remove it. My '86 36 Convertable has a plate over the fiberglass tank. All fittings and the gage are on that plate. After removing it I threw away the wet cork type float pieces, polished the underwater parts with sandpaper, and made a new float from closed cell foam scraps. You must use closed cell foam so it won't soak up water. I had to add a 3/8" stainless nut on top of my new float to give enough weight to slide down toward empty. I tied the two sides of the new float together with waxed sail twine. It works great in a bucket. I re-installed it with teflon tape on it's threads and anti-seeze on the female threads of the tank cover plate.I won't know until spring if it works, but I think it will and the price is good.

[jim rosenthal]

..which I am unable to fathom, my tank gauge is OCTAGONAL instead of hexagonal. This means none of the sockets I was able to find will work. I finally gave up, measured the octagonal dimensions, and asked a friend who builds race cars to cut me out a metal socket using a plasma cutter and weld a 1/2" drive socket to the top of it. I will then, with luck, have a wrench I will use one time, since the replacement tank gauge is hexagonal- and will be installed with teflon grease, you betcha, so if I ever have to get it out I don't go through this again. I ain't there yet, but I am closing in on it. I hope.

[maynardrupp]

Good luck Jim. Our 36 Hat is a 1986 model and I see from the great piece in Soundings that your beauty is an earlier model 36. Maybe they used 6 sided tank gages then. I just can't imagine that. They are so non-standard that I have to wonder how they tightened them. Have you checked to see if a 12 point 2 3/8" socket will work? I also needed a 3/4" drive, long handle rachet wrench, to loosen it. I used my feet and braced my old tired back on a bulkhead. Don't use any extensions as they side load the threads. Again good luck Jim

[Nonchalant1]

There are lots of different boats, different gauges, different folks mentioned here. I went through this on my 53MY recently (hex sockets in 1978 Jim) and the big deal is whether the tank has the bronze plate glassed in to the top or a brass fitting epoxied into the top. The bronze plate can take a lot of abuse and a socket and breaker bar will get it loose after a few days of WD40. Also, somebody here told me to tighten it a hair first and then loosen it, which worked great for my bronze plate type fuel tanks.
My water tanks have the epoxied in sender, so you have to make or buy a 2 1/2 inch flat wrench to hold the bottom nut while you turn the top nut with a 2 3/8 socket.
Re: gauges - the Snake River gauge system works fine for up to 8 fuel or water tanks on one display. Just get the sealed internal tube type for water, fuel and holding tanks. No moving parts and the sender never touches the liquid so it doesn't foul up! I fixed the original Rochester gauges for fuel, but have Snake River for the others.

[Nonchalant1]

Today I found a 2.5" jaw, flat wrench suitable for holding the bottom nut on the water tank gauges and I already have a regular 2 3/8 socket for the gauge head. I'll try it tomorrow and if it works, I can mail the wrench and socket to you for yours.

Doug Shuman

[jim rosenthal]

..I picked up the wrench head made for me by a friend with a plasma cutter. If it fits, he will finish turning it into a big socket wrench and we will see if I can get the old tank gauge out. Wish me luck. This thing looks vaguely like the throwing stars the martial arts guys in movies use, except in reverse. Maybe I can get Oddjob to help me get the gauge out:D

[Genesis]

... and a 1-1/2" PVC pipe plug is in the hole.

Now I have to figure out if I want to:

1. Buy a SAMS replacement, which has the same original problem (float failure eventually) that the original had.

2. Get a snake-river system and deal with the wiring and where to put the freaking panel for it.

3. Get a SS sender for the water tank, install that, buy a $20 water level gauge (standard 220 - 30 ohms) and hook it up somewhere - and be done with it.

The problem is that I DO NOT want to get rid of my mechanical fuel gauges. They are exactly what I want when I fill, because I can watch them as I put in the fuel. As such I NEVER overflow the tanks, and not spilling fuel is a big deal to me. If I was going to convert the entire thing I'd just go to the snake river system and be done with it - but I'm not going to do that.

My waste tank has no fitting for a real gauge - it just has the 3/4 full light, and there's no good place to install a gauge that I can find, so that ain't gonna be getting installed in that tank. I do not envision myself enjoying cutting a hole in the waste tank and then trying to get the smell out of the boat for the next bajillion years.

[Nonchalant1]

Genesis,

The 3/4 full sender on the 53MY holding tank is a perfect match for the Snake River tank gauge sender. You take out the top bronze fitting and you have a 1" pipe thread hole, or take out the larger bronze fitting and put in a PVC replacement with a 1" pipe thread hole. Both my holding tanks are on Snake River gauge. I mounted the panel in my s/b engine room on the side of the salon stairs side cover (right at eye level when you open the door). Works great. You have to run 18 ga. 3-wire wires from the sender to the panel, but it all goes through the genny bilge. I'm going to add water tank gauges to the same panel if I get my water senders out.

Doug

[nonchalant]

Today I got my old water tank gauge system out. Originally I made a special flat wrench to hold the 2.5" bottom nut, but it wouldn't come. When I used a breaker bar, the top nut still wouldn't budge but I got so much torque I bent the bottom nut wrench and turned the whole thing in that white epoxy sealer stuff. Turns out that the whole unit has pipe threads on the bottom and the white epoxy stuff is VERY strong and about 3/8" thick, so the whole thing just screws out. The white epoxy retains the threads in it so the sender can be screwed back in and sealed with 5200.
The bronze twist rod in the tank had some mild scale on it and the cork was waterlogged, so it didn't work. I just used steel wool on the bronze rods and now it all turns smoothly. I just have to decide whether to get a PVC sender for my Snake River system, or just get a new float from Rochester Gauges.
For others, my opinion is to go ahead and use the big 2 3/8 socket and a breaker bar and unscrew the whole thing. The two big nuts won't come loose from each other, so just take them out together. Chip any of the white epoxy away from the nut corners first. After they were out, I used a torch to heat the outer nut to get them apart with 15" pipe wrenches.