Replacing my aluminum window frames

[Keith]

The aluminum frames on my 1966 50' Yacht Fisherman are very pitted and I believe to be the source of numerous leaks. Now that summer is upon us I'd like to replace the frames if possible. Has anyone done this and if so can you tell me where to find replacement frames. I need the ones in the galley only, the rest seem to be in good shape.

Thanks,
Keith
Lady J

[Jimmy Watts]

Keith,

I read your inquiry about galley window frames and I can help you if you are interested. I build replacement anodized window frames for Hatteras boats. My name is Jimmy Watts and I have been working with Steve at SAM's for many years now, you can contact him for a reference if you would like. If you want to contact me, my number is 252-634-2214 or email jwatts14@cox.net. Thank you. Jimmy

[doc g]

I have heard or possibly seen here that someone makes fiberglass frames for these windows also. If anybody knows anything ,I'd be very interested to hear about it........Pat

[chuck@waterwaysystems.com]

Waterway Systems has been manufacturing custom replacement windows for Hatteras and other fine yachts for over 30 years. Contact us, and we would gladly quote you to furnish replacements for your vessel.
1-800-952-3886
chuck@waterwaysystems.com


Chuck MacTavish
Waterway Systems Inc.
www.waterwaysystems.com

[67hat34c]

Hello Chuck, We have not installed the windows you made for our 34c yet, boat still being painted. we are shooting for the end of the month, will send photos to you as Ron requested.

Steve Hierholzer

[SeaEric]

I would love to purchase new windows to pop into the existing openings of sliding windows now in the cabin sides of my boat. The problem as I see it is that the surface is not a flat plane. The sides of my cabin house have an ever so slight curve as the area goes forward. With a new aluminum frame window, one would expect it to set into a flat opening. So, how does this work, window experts? Please advise.

[Jimmy Watts]

Eric, What type and model of boat do you have? Jimmy

[SeaEric]

46' Matthews (fiberglass) motor yacht 1970, Jack Hargrave design.

[davnad]

The administrator removed my post about a REAL BAD experience with one of the persons that says he makes replacement windows for Hatteras Yachts on the site.
I have been told that you will have to PM me to get his name.
Thanks
Dave

[Boss Lady]

I am replacing all the windows in 48' Yachtfish, I am waiting on some quotes to come back next week, one is for 316 stainless and the other is for aluminum, both gave reasonable quotes for sliding salon windows $600-$800 and stated those prices were for single replacement windows, and a complete set would be priced lower than that. Previous quotes for the complete job were $18k-$20k from the usual sources. I will pass along the source to those who are interested after I get a hard quote and they live up to what they said.

[MikeP]

6-$800 per window doesn't sound too bad. 18-$20K for a set sounds like somebody is trying to recoup the losses from buying a couple of bridges in NYC. Incidentally, I still have a couple for sale - I can make a really nice deal on the Brooklyn and Queensboro...;)

[bobk]

Who are you working with?

[SeaEric]

I have been speaking with Chuck at Waterway Systems. Nice guy. I have quotes on the 4 sliding window units in my salon and also 3 new windshields-the center of which is to hinge open. I shall post my progress with the decision making segment of the project.

[Boss Lady]

I will let you guys know who we are working with when they give me the quote and deliver the windows, until then I am not going to pass along anything, because the usual recommended sources have not done anything spectacular and their prices were gold plated. These new guys show great promise and if they don't get greedy will wind up with a lot of business. They currently have about a 6-8 week back log. I am in manufacturing myself, and I wish I could get the markup I know they are getting for items in the yacht industry. Believe me, we purchase aluminum, stainless, fiberglass, carbon fiber, nylon, etc and I know materials and labor costs. Our products have about a 30% margin. Some these guys are getting 300% markups so it pays to shop. My shipwright contacted a window manufacturer that supplies the OEM yacht manufacturers with windows to find the aluminum extrusion we needed to repair the existing windows, at first they were willing to sell him some 20 foot lengths at $4-$7.50 a foot depending upon which extrusion, then when he actually ordered it, they changed their policy and would only sell complete windows. He sent them the dimensions and their quote came back at close to $20k. We had figured out the cost to have them fabbed locally, and with new glass was going to be right at $5k plus anodizing costs, based upon the aluminum extrusion cost they first quoted. There is a local guy here in NC that does windows, which is great if you only need to replace a couple of windows, but a whole boat gets too expensive quickly. He has to charge more because of low volume and he has to pay a premium for materials. If I just needed a few windows I would just use him, but I am re-doing a whole boat. I have turned my shipwright on to several new sources for materials and he has gotten price reductions of 40-70% on most of the materials he uses. This lets him give better prices to his customers, which I am one of them. He has already saved me $30K on materials with the new sources of supply used on Boss Lady.

[harnett]

Gentlemen,

I just wanted to offer a couple of thoughts on this window issue. I have purchased the extrusion from directly from Hatteras in the past. Anybody that can work a chop saw and weld aluminum can make the frames. Finishing speaks for itself and the glass install is very easy as well. It sounds as if some people are having a hard time finding the extrusion. It has been a few years but I bought them directly from Hatteras. One more thing, If Hatteras will not sell them anymore, I had a die made to extrude aluminum and it only cost $500 with an order of extrusion.

For what it's worth. I remade the two sliders on my 53c and changed them to fixed windows about 10 years ago using the Hatteras extrusions. That where the Hatteras purchase information came from. I have sinces replaced all my windows with frameless windows. I had an extrusion made that resembles the custom Carolina boats, permanantly molded it into the boat and now have all frameless windows. That's where the custom extrusion die info was obtained. Just thought I'd past along the information.

[Boss Lady]

Believe me, this is not that easy. There are two different extrusions required for the salon windows, the bottom slide and the top/sides. The fixed windows make a third. The helm windows require five different extrusions for a total of eight different extrusions, so even at $500 per die we are looking at $4,000 just for dies. I did find the extrusion at a retailer, just the extrusion was $3,800, the labor for cutting and welding $1000, Anodizing was another $2000, plus glass and trim. Total was close to $9,000. Not bad but very costly to me or my shipwright to chase all this down and get it done. The biggest problem is having to buy all the components at retail. The felt, the plastic slides and rubber stripping is very expensive to buy in small quantities. A full time shop that deals in this gets tremendous price breaks and can make them and sell them cheaper with a profit than we can buy the components. For example a local welding shop made something that I really liked in mild steel, but I wanted it made from 316 stainless steel, they buy steel from a local distributor, he gave me the quote which was very high, as it turns out he was getting shafted, I gave him my distributor who I buy a lot of stainless from, and his price went from $1800 per sheet to $1009.00 per sheet and included shipping. I cut his raw materials cost in half and it saved me and future customers a bundle and made him more competive without affecting his profit margin. In this day and age with all the price gouging, it pays to shop.

[bobk]

I have been speaking with Chuck at Waterway Systems. Nice guy. I have quotes on the 4 sliding window units in my salon and also 3 new windshields-the center of which is to hinge open. I shall post my progress with the decision making segment of the project.

I like the idea of an opening center window. Can it be made reliably waterproof? And how will you access it to open it?

Bob

[bigbill]

a couple of years ago dog river marina in mobile alabama made fiberglass replacement window frames, i dont know if they still do. give them a call, they might be able to help you. bigbill

[Traveler 45C]

It is my understandng that the conversion to frame-less windows is unbelievable expensive, much more per window than just replacing the frames. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[67hat34c]

dont know about the cost but I would bet there is alot of labor involved not to mention the extra time involved.
changing window can take as little as one day if you dont need to make structural repairs. pop the old ones out, clean it up and put in the new ones. larger windows will take 3 guys to do it. I have replace the 3 front windows and now doing the 2 large side ones on a 34c. took us about 45min to pull the 2 side windows out, surface prep was minimal. we masked it off and had boat painted before new ones go in. we will install them next week, paint will be cured by then. I will try to remember to get some close ups of the 2 new ones before we install them so you can see the work that Waterway systems did.

[SeaEric]

If I understand correctly, the windows that Waterway makes are all straight lines and angles at the corners, no curves and no radius corners. Is that correct? My existing windows are rounded at the corners and have a sweeping curve at the aft end. I'm not sure that I want to change the look of the boat by having the sharp corners.

[67hat34c]

cant answer that one.

[Boss Lady]

I saw a sample of my new windows and I am completely satisfied with the quality. If you need windows with radius corners or mitered corners, contact Paul at www.starcarpentry.com he can get you aluminum frames or 316 stainless frames. Mine will be arriving in 6-8 weeks. I ponied up for the stainless after I saw the sample. Polished 316 that looks like a mirror. Paul found a source that custom makes windows, but they do not deal with the public. They want competent boat yards that can make accurate measurements and templates. But you can send your templates to Paul and he can get them made. Prices are reasonable the aluminum was about $12k and the Stainless was $15K, the stainless cost less than everyone else's aluminum, and the quality is the best I have ever seen. These prices are for three sliding windows (two in salon, and one in the aft stateroom), seven fixed windows, and a complete helm window system with sliding side windows and front opening center window! Previous quotes were from $15k to $20k for all aluminum. :D

[Diver Down]

I will let you guys know who we are working with when they give me the quote and deliver the windows, until then I am not going to pass along anything, because the usual recommended sources have not done anything spectacular and their prices were gold plated. These new guys show great promise and if they don't get greedy will wind up with a lot of business.....

Any updates to share with us re the window replacement?

[Keith]

I did get one quote on replacement window frames. The quote was in the neighborhood of $1000 per frame - no glass!!! The other comments in the thread indicated even higher pricing. So - I've decided to TIG weld my own frames, use solid glass and if air flow in the galley is an issue, I will install two opening hatches in the galley cabin top. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

We purchased this boat in January of this year and have been doing some remodeling. The floors were carpeted with dark green carpeting. It looked like a cave when walking between the enginerooms to the aft cabin. We yanked out the carpet and put down teak and holly with a few throw rugs. The change is awesome. Down below looks clean and bright. We also removed the center head and installed a stacking washer and dryer. Next step is to move up to the main salon and install new flooring and finally tackle the galley. Although this Hatt was built in 1966, it went through a major overhaul in 1989 -90. All new interior, plumbing, electrical, one engine was replaced and the other had an in-frame rebuild (300 hours now), Awlgrip paint job, new flybridge, and the list goes on. I hope soon to be able to post some photos.

Keith

[67hat34c]

before you committ, price powercoating and anodizing and the extrusions. you may find that you are not saving that much.
we paid about 900 each for the side salon frames with limo glass for a 34c, these windows are 10' long. We just installed them last week and they are awsome. used new installation system. no screws. had a few holes tapped on the inside frame, mounted the windows with 5200 and used wood clamps bolted throught the tapped holes. once cured we will remove the clamps and fill the holes. no more coorosion. took photos of this process but cant post to this site as the files are too large if you want i can send you an e mail to your personal e mail address.

[Keith]

I would really like to see your photos. Also, where are you located, I'm out in California and the original price I got did not include packaging and shipping! Please send them to sv_tensegrity@yahoo.com

Thanks,
Keith

[Boss Lady]

I saw a sample of my new windows and I am completely satisfied with the quality. If you need windows with radius corners or mitered corners, contact Paul at www.starcarpentry.com he can get you aluminum frames or 316 stainless frames. Mine will be arriving in 6-8 weeks. I ponied up for the stainless after I saw the sample. Polished 316 that looks like a mirror. Paul found a source that custom makes windows, but they do not deal with the public. They want competent boat yards that can make accurate measurements and templates. But you can send your templates to Paul and he can get them made. Prices are reasonable the aluminum was about $12k and the Stainless was $15K, the stainless cost less than everyone else's aluminum, and the quality is the best I have ever seen. These prices are for three sliding windows (two in salon, and one in the aft stateroom), seven fixed windows, and a complete helm window system with sliding side windows and front opening center window! Previous quotes were from $15k to $20k for all aluminum. :D


Contact Paul at Star Carpentry and ask him to email you some pictures of the window frames. As stated above I am getting polished 316 stainless steel windows with screens for the sliding windows, gray tinted glass, and stainless helm windows with a tilt out center window. True yacht class windows for less than what I have been quoted for aluminum. That works out for the 15 windows to right at $1000 each, you wont be able to touch that anywhere for stainless and maybe not even aluminum. If you see these you will buy them, nothing else comes close. You can contact Paul or wait and see mine.

[MarioG]

Any updates on side window replacements? It looks like I may need to replace a few.

[OVERSPRAY]

I had my side frames built by Slane. I shipped him my old nasty, pitted, butchered frames and for about $3k, I received in a wood shipping crate 2 brand new CORRECT frames with CORRECT felt, trim, screens and glass. A direct screw in replacement. I highly recomend having them build them rather than having someone peice them together, The felts are by far the hardest thing of all to install. I believe they have the specs on most models, I have the 28 sportfish, rather rare so they had to have my frames on hand to copy, I would guess if they could build them of specs it could be no more than a days project to swap them out. Man they look great with new fresh frames and glass.

[Boss Lady]

The windows for Boss Lady are being held at the shipping dock until we are ready to install them, hopefully next week. We do not have a safe place to store them for very long, so they will be delivered and installed at the same time. The yard is a very busy place and a bunch of crates sitting around is inviting disaster. I know how to post pictures now so as soon as they arrive I can get some posted.

[Blinky]

Any advise on finding replacement windows for my 52' convertible?

[Boss Lady]

Here is a picture but it does not come close to what they really look like in person, since trying to photograph a mirror is almost impossible, all you get is reflections.

http://www.starcarpentry.com/images/gallery/bosslady61.jpg
http://www.starcarpentry.com/images/gallery/bosslady59.jpg

[yachtsmanbill]

Those beveled frames really update the look. Are they low E glass too? The ones on the front of the salon would justify the amount of work required to redo all the stuff inside. Do those open as well?? ws

[Starman]

Bill,

The windows on the front, under the salon brow, do not open. The center windows , as seen on the salon sides are sliders. The front and rear glass will slide, and there is a screen on the inside as well.

I can get these windows with curves, mitered corners, round corners........sliders, fixed, and any combination of the above.

There really is not much to do on the inside. They through bolt, so a piece of trim will cover the bolts. I will have pics this weekend of how we are trimming out the interior.

One other thing worth mentioning: There is no felt to wear out. These windows ride on a pliable pvc type material. The track will not turn brittle or discolor.

I will try and get a close up pic of that as well this weekend.

[yachtsmanbill]

What the heck are you gonna do when this job is done?? Your work is finally coming to fruition. KUDOS. ws

[Starman]

LOL,

Start another one.....

Daughter still in college, wife wants more Bling Bling' ........geeeze :rolleyes:

[Starman]

Hey Bill,

I could go to Chicago and visit the relatives and work on your boat :D

[yachtsmanbill]

Is it possible to get one for my wheelhouse center with a hinge on the top and risers on the sides? I would like a 1/3 fixed pane on the bottom, with the top 2/3 opening. Kinda like a Chris Craft Commander. I would die for fresh air below! When my dad bought our Roamer the PO took all the riser hardware off and lost it. The first thing I did was go junking for replacement stuff. WHAT A DIFFERENCE !! ws

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Bill,

I could go to Chicago and visit the relatives and work on your boat :D


No sweat Paul... I can house, feed and entertain you at least. Had a tetanus shot lately? LOL
Wheres the family live? Any single cousins that wouldnt mind being Hatteras widows at an early age?? One thing Chicago has an abundance of is BLING...
IYKWIM :eek: ws

[Starman]

Haha,

Most of my relatives live a bit northeast of ohare', Mom was born a couple blocks away from wrigly field.

Was there about 5-6 years ago at a big family reunion. Drove all over the city without a map. :D