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JKC
11-11-2004, 09:52 PM
The copper steering lines on my 1978 37C are springing leaks. It's time to upgrade and I'm sure the fuel lines are not far behind. What's the best (not too expensive) hose for the steering and the fuel? The diesel mechanic recommended plain hydralic lines -- high pressure rubber hose. The job seems easy enough to me. Is there anything I should be looking for?

Genesis
11-11-2004, 10:45 PM
... for hydraulic steering connections. You want to use it, since you want very low-stretch hose or the steering will feel "soft". Hydraulic hose, I would think, is a bit too elastic for that - but the HP stuff (e.g. 5000 psi rating) might be ok.

I know that Hynautic and SeaStar make specific hose for this application, and its not TOO horribly expensive. The other alternative is to replace the copper line - that's a very viable option, and one that I'd consider.

jim rosenthal
11-12-2004, 03:05 AM
Hynautic (which I think is now owned by Teleflex or SeaStar) make nylon tubing which is specifically for hydraulic marine systems. This is what they put in new systems, I am pretty sure. The cost is not huge- the biggest problem is pulling it through and hooking everything up and bleeding the system.

Genesis
11-12-2004, 12:11 PM
... is not a big deal.

If you get the system fixed and need the procedure, let me know. I've done mine and its not immediately obvious, but not terribly difficult to take care of.

Mike36c
11-12-2004, 12:49 PM
I removed all of my copper lines earlier this year when I repowered. I used Teleflex/Hynautic nylon line and reusable fittings (user installed with no special tools) and it was not that big of a deal, I bought the line in bulk then cut to fit. It allowed me relocate the reservoir from the aft engine room bulkhead (right above a stuffing box) to a more accessible place. As Karl said, the bleeding process is not too involved, I downloaded a PDF file from Teleflex which detailed the event. Mike

Banshee36
11-14-2004, 04:07 PM
I think that Parker sells a plastic Hydraulic steering line set that is comparable with Teleflex/Hynautic as well as the reusable fittings. I seem to have a small leak somewhere and have considered replacing the old K copper. Also plan on having some new rudders made this winter to help out some handling issues.
JW

Walter Pereira
11-14-2004, 04:30 PM
The steering on my 48 MY is very hard and I need to do whatever is necessary to correct it. My previous boat (1980 43 MY) was a pleasure to steer even with one finger. I plan to address this problem over the winter layover in drydock. Any suggestions on where to start? Has anyone had similar hard steering? Thanks in advance guys..... Walt

jim rosenthal
11-14-2004, 06:09 PM
The following things (and more I'm sure) need to be present for the hydraulic steering to work as it ought to:
-rudder stocks free in bores of ports (if I have the terms right); these get old and corroded and need to be cleaned and greased etc
-logs and packing on rudder ports in good shape and logs not too tight
-hydraulic cylinder not binding and moving freely
-no crimped lines to resist helm pressure
-helm pumps working as they ought to
-all mechanical bits (tie rods, etc) should move freely

In a sense, the hydraulic system is self-lubricating. These systems often work for years with little or no maintenance. My guess is that if your boat steers hard, which it did not do when new, the most likely problem is in the rudder ports and it is corroded bores, OR the steering cylinder is binding.
My info is slightly out of date, but in the recent past everything in these systems was available from Hynautic as rebuilt/exchange, I think. I would disconnect the steering cylinder from the Pitman arm, or whatever it's called, and see how the rudders operate with the boat out of the water. That would give you some info as to whether it's the rudders themselves or the steering system. Hope this is helpful.

JKC
11-14-2004, 10:10 PM
Mark Adams at Teleflex told me to use the rubber hose, not the nylon hose, on my steering system. Apparently the nylon hose is not designed for this size system. Since I'm redoing the lines, I'd like to relocate the reservoir, too. I'd like to put it on the bridge, but I was wondering if it can go that "high" or should it be lower in the system? Mike, where did you relocate yours to?

Genesis
11-14-2004, 11:00 PM
... on the bridge are fine. Vikings often have them there.

Mine is in a back corner of the engine room on my Hatt, and a real pain to get to. If I have to replace the steering lines you can bet I'll move the reservoir at the same time.

Mike36c
11-14-2004, 11:56 PM
JKC, I thought it foolish to mount anything near the stuffing boxes so I moved the reservoir, circuit breakers, battery switches, and battery charger to the forward bulkhead in the engine room but left the racors aft. Servicing is a breeze and corrosion is minimized, never thought about moving the reservoir to the bridge. As for the nylon lines, I guess I didn't know any better but so far it works great. Haven't touched it since the change out and its smooth and trouble free.

rufuschamblee
11-15-2004, 11:21 AM
After dealing with Teleflex, I found a company that is making the original Hynautic parts ---here is their web site--www.charment.com. Good guys and lots of help

Rufus

jim rosenthal
11-15-2004, 12:17 PM
This is interesting...I thought the purpose of the hard nylon hose was that it is not distensible, so all the pressure generated by the helm pump would be transmitted to the steering cylinder. If the hose swells even a little with pressure, as long as the hose runs are, you would lose some of your steering travel and the helm would feel soft, I would think. When I first got my Hatteras, I had a leaking helm station and I decided to take the whole system apart and send all the pieces in for overhaul. (all but the steering cylinder itself, which was fine). They sent me an exchange reservoir and rebuilt helms, which are working fine so far. In my system, there are rubber armored hoses which connect the helm pumps to the rigid tubing. They are only a foot or two, though. I used aircraft hydraulic fluid to refill the system.
I suppose one of these days a line will break and I will have to pull new hose through. Based on what I went through doing my cable controls, I am not looking forward to this. The advantage of the nylon hose seems to be that it pulls through the boat easier, and the fitting are easier to manage since they don't use flare ends. On the last survey of the boat, the steering was felt to be fine and it works fine, so for now I am going to let a sleeping dog lie.

Genesis
11-15-2004, 07:39 PM
... that leak are EASILY rebuilt. There are a couple of "X" rings in there which are readily available from any decent seal shop, and you CAN replace them with "O" rings at some loss in service life (e.g. it'll leak sooner next time, and need to be done again sooner)

I've gotten three years off my last "O" ring replacement - I'll take it, given that Hynautic wanted some obscene amount for what is about $0.50 worth of parts.

Walter Pereira
11-17-2004, 02:06 AM
Thanks Jim

I guess I have been real lucky in the past as I have never had a boat with steering problems before this current 48. The boat is in dry dock for the winter so I will follow the steps you outlined until I get to the bottom of the problem. I will report on success/failure in the event someone else has the same problem. Walt

Trojan
11-17-2004, 12:33 PM
O-Rings don't ware out unless there is movement in the joint or there older than Me.You had better check to see if the ring your using is made of the correct compound for the type of fluid being used.BILL

Genesis
11-17-2004, 06:37 PM
... are dynamic, and they DO wear out :)