SeaKeeper Stabilizer worth it on an older boat?

[rustybucket]

So literally the ONLY thing I don't really like about our boat (any boat for that matter) is that it can get rocky when drift fishing at night. It just so happens that drift fishing or super slow trolling live baits is one of my favorite types of fishing to do. I can bear the rocking, but my wife can't and many people that fish with us cannot handle it (barf fest).

The 52c Hat is MUCH better at drift than our old Ocean 38, but it still gets rocky when rough.

I'm really leaning toward a seakeeper install next winter. The seakeeper 9 itself is going to cost $72k plus whatever in install. As it sits right now our boat is probably worth somewhere in the $150-$200k range.

I do not have any direct intention of selling the boat anytime soon, but I do find myself eyeballing the 65-70' boats at the dock much more lately....

So, I guess I'm trying to convince myself, and my wife that a seakeeper is a good, or bad thing to install given all the factors.

Good
- will use boat more
- will spend more time drift fishing / live baiting (my favorite)
- wife will be able to enjoy the boat offshore much more, currently it has to be pretty calm for her to go.
- friends/family will enjoy the boat more
- I feel like keeping the boat from rocking so much will add life to the boats fixtures...etc. We have beat the hell out of boats drift fishing before.
- Boat will sell MUCH quicker/easier whenever we do want to move up

Bad
- $72k for just the seakeeper
- $30k? for install?
- loose under cockpit storage area (pretty much junk down there now anyways though)
- will never recoup the investment when selling the boat (at least that's what I feel?)
- something else to maintain/break/upkeep


So if my boat is worth $150k now, how much will it be worth with $130k of seakeeper on it?

What am I overlooking? Is this a stupid idea?

We are in the Gulf of Mexico so a sloppy wind chop is almost an every trip occurrence at some point. Drifting on a tight 2-3' confused sea (possibly from multiple directions) sucks.

Anything that this $130k would be better spent on?

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

[Cricket]

None of this boating stuff/expense makes any sense in the first place.
For me adding a gyro would be all about the benefit now, not worrying about the boat's worth down the road.
So, your 52c is worth approximately 5% of a new similar boat (with all the new stuff of course), if spending $120K enhances the enjoyment/use factor enough just go for it.
As an example, when we repowered with the CAT's we knew it didn't make any real sense. But. the new engines basically allowed us to have a boat that would perform close to a new one and most of all be as reliable as a new boat for a fraction of buying a new boat.

Take a look at Quick Marine's gyro products.
Seakeeper has basically had a monopoly in the space, there's other players coming into the US market.

[Boatsb]

If youve not done a seakeeper test ride do it.

I was on a center console with one and what a difference it made.

Just like a repower. If you feel its a benefit and worth the price do it. If not remember theres plenty of other boats out there sitting on the dock not being used because of a little weather.

[MadHatter53]

I would have a look to see what's avail with a gyro in a certain price range. You might find your next boat and be twice as happy.

[rustybucket]

If youve not done a seakeeper test ride do it.

I was on a center console with one and what a difference it made.

Just like a repower. If you feel its a benefit and worth the price do it. If not remember theres plenty of other boats out there sitting on the dock not being used because of a little weather.

One of the things that really pushed me toward Hatteras 52c was the ability of the boat to handle rough seas. It has done so marvelously this past summer and we had her in some SNOTTY stuff. No doubt in my mind the boat can handle WAY more than I'm comfortable with.

The drawback (which is leading to looking at a gyro stabilizer) is that we can now very easily and comfortably travel in 4-6'++ seas. But once we get there and try to fish we can only troll with and against the seas and forget trying to drift.

I talked with the capt of a 74 Viking at the dock couple weeks back and he said the gyro has made 4-6 their new 2-3's in terms of drifting fishability.

Looking at other boats for sale, doesn't look like I touch a 50'+ sportfish in good shape, fresh engines, new generator and a stabilizer for under $700-$800k. So looking at it that way, putting $120k into it to get what I want, is actually quite a bit cheaper than moving up or buying a previously stabilized boat....

[rustybucket]

None of this boating stuff/expense makes any sense in the first place.
For me adding a gyro would be all about the benefit now, not worrying about the boat's worth down the road.
So, your 52c is worth approximately 5% of a new similar boat (with all the new stuff of course), if spending $120K enhances the enjoyment/use factor enough just go for it.
As an example, when we repowered with the CAT's we knew it didn't make any real sense. But. the new engines basically allowed us to have a boat that would perform close to a new one and most of all be as reliable as a new boat for a fraction of buying a new boat.

Take a look at Quick Marine's gyro products.
Seakeeper has basically had a monopoly in the space, there's other players coming into the US market.

You have a good point there. I could not touch something like our boat with a stabilizer for anywhere near what I would have just installing a gyro in ours.

Looked at Quick's Gyros, very interesting! I couldn't seem to find any pricing or sizing info. You know if they have a US distributor yet?

edit: found us distributor and sent them a message, product looks nice and much simpler than seakeeper.

[SKYCHENEY]

You shouldn't ask me. I love these old Hatts and anything you can do to make them better, I say go for it.

Do it because you love the boat, not because you want to think about selling it.

[captcrunch]

Rusty bucket, you may be able to get away with 2 small sea keepers at s lower cost.

[Scarlett]

We were just in Australia where the Maritimo line of boats are built. They are now using the Quick system exclusively in there 55’s. No water cooling which is the weak point on the Seakeepers, also smaller and easier to install. If someone finds out about pricing, let us all know. John

[hoop1013]

Listed on EBay

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F30 3016146330

[oscarvan]

Can you take it out and re-use on the next boat? Sell it and recoup, say, 50%?

[scottinsydney]

I thought Seakeepers had an end of life and needed replacing with a factory reco unit after a certain number of operating hours??? If so, perhaps look for one that only requires servicing.

[nautibake]

Rusty bucket, you may be able to get away with 2 small sea keepers at s lower cost.

Can you take it out and re-use on the next boat? Sell it and recoup, say, 50%?

These are both good points, not sure of the “lower cost” but 2 is definitely better than 1. The PO installed 2 Seakeepers on our boat (a former Navy pilot wanted redundancy). One of the selling points (theoretically) was that we could remove and sell one of them and still be stabilized. I don’t think that is very practical given how involved the install /removal would be. However, there were times that we only ran one unit, and it was great to have the capability. No idea what the after market value is, but Seakeeper is very responsive and has a good network of service technicians.


We were just in Australia where the Maritimo line of boats are built. They are now using the Quick system exclusively in there 55’s. No water cooling which is the weak point on the Seakeepers, also smaller and easier to install. If someone finds out about pricing, let us all know. John

The raw water cooling was not an issue with the Seakeepers per se, but (in my case), the March submersible pumps. They are not self-priming pumps, yet they are water cooled. We lost prime several times and didn’t know it. Burned up several pumps before I installed in-line flow sensors that are connected to N2K so I can see positive flow from any connected display on the boat. Have never had a problem since. Now we spool up one gyro on shore power before we even start the GenSet. It takes about 20 minutes to spool up to stabilizing RPM. By then we are switched over to ships power and ready to shove off. Also, the Seakeepers can run about 4 hours without raw water cooling (ask me how I know). They have a set of temp sensors on the housing, and all of the bearings that allow the main computer to trigger an auto shutdown before any damage is done to the unit.


I thought Seakeepers had an end of life and needed replacing with a factory reco unit after a certain number of operating hours??? If so, perhaps look for one that only requires servicing.

I don’t know of any piece of sophisticated machinery that can run infinitely, but in our 3years of ownership I have never seen any reference in the documentation or heard from the many Seakeeper service and support people anything to support an “end life” point. I will make it a point to ask them the specific question now! They do offer some attractive trade-up options from time to time, like a 50% trade in value, but we are still super happy with the original units.

What they do have, at least in the case of our M8000 units (basically the same as the new Seakeeper 9), is a 2000 hour service interval to inspect the units, replace fluids, zincs and seals, etc. That ran us about $1800 total (for the 2 units). So less than $1 per hour. If a unit goes 5 years without reaching 2000 hours, they recommend the same servicing.

[nautibake]

You shouldn't ask me. I love these old Hatts and anything you can do to make them better, I say go for it.

Do it because you love the boat, not because you want to think about selling it.

I’m with Sky on this point! It sounds like you have an ideal set of circumstances, maybe even more than the average Seakeeper customer, with how you use and enjoy your boat. Another brand was mentioned, which you should explore, but FWIW, we love the Seakeepers, the company and their support network right here in the good old USA. If you talk to Seakeeper, ask them how many new yacht builders are including them OEM these days. BTW I believe they got their start with Azimut almost 10 years ago. Thousands of proven units worldwide in a wide variety of vessels including commercial. Importantly, they are perfect for stabilizing while you are drifting. We have even fired them up in the slip during a violent thunderstorm. Anyway whatever you decide - Good luck!!

[rustybucket]

Had a good phone conversation with Quick US this morning. Honestly I'm sold. He is sending me sizing documents so we get sized up correctly. If these things work as advertised SeaKeeper better watch out. Price tag for the 19k was approx $25k cheaper than a seakeeper 9.

MSRP for the 19k is $50k

Some pluses
- install can be done in water with crane (two over water cranes very close to our boat)
- we can self-install
- air cooled - no need for water cooling
- smaller footprint than seakeeper
- service in-place, almost everything on the unit is serviceable in-place (seakeepers have to be pulled)
- no vacuum or vacuum system
- significant cost savings

Some minuses
- air cooled, you have to have good air flow through the boat. probably plenty of flow when engines are running but we may have to add some additional ventilation. It will overheat if improper air flow.
- ??? can't think of anything else?

So, if I can save $24k over seakeeper AND save the $20-$30k install fee that is HUGE... and makes this decision MUCH easier... This may turn into a mid-summer project rather than fall/winter at these numbers....

[Pascal]

Before spending that much money on The Quick gyro I would try to get feedback from owners and see which builders are using them. There has been various products launched over the years which appear great on paper but don’t work out so well in the real world. Compressed air powered stabilizers come to mind. Lazzara installed them in their boats in the 90s and/or 2000s but they turned out to be troublesome. They switched to Trac hydraulics at some point.

[Cricket]

The Seakeeper on EBAY has been listed multiple times for at least 6 months and probably close to a year.
There's no way that one is fitting in a 52c.
I spoke to Quick Marine in Baltimore in the fall and their product is very interesting.
Haven't filled out their paperwork yet for a quote, probably because I'm scared I would go ahead and put one in.
Also, there's a lot of maintenance for the Seakeeper.
Good friend has one in a 45 Viking, at approximately 1500 hours it started making a noise, has to send it back for new bearings, etc and is looking at something like $25k-30k plus the removal/replacement and freight.

Just need a few more gyro makers in the market to get the prices down.....

[ageless]

Rusty, what kind of warranty is offered with the Quick unit?

[Cricket]

Rustbucket, curious to see where a gyro will fit on a 52c? Did you get the dimensions for the Quick marine unit?
Also, Quick bought a long established Italian gyro maker so there should be quite a bit of history/reviews on them from boat owners in Europe etc.

[rustybucket]

Rustbucket, curious to see where a gyro will fit on a 52c? Did you get the dimensions for the Quick marine unit?
Also, Quick bought a long established Italian gyro maker so there should be quite a bit of history/reviews on them from boat owners in Europe etc.

The dimensions are on their italian website, had to break out google translate for some of it. But the dimensions of the 19 (which is what I 'think' I'll need) are 24"x24" base x 27" tall approx 1200lbs

The rep says the absolute best location for install is between the engines. That is not really feasable on the 52c so I am looking at two possible install locations.

Location 1 is under the engine room ladder. Although I've got to put a tape measure in there to see what kind of space I'm looking at there. I have a toolbox there currently, no idea how much space is actually there.

The second location is aft of the main fuel tank under the cockpit as close to the fighting chair pole as possible. Should be plenty of room there for the install for sure.

The control box needs to be mounted within 18' (wire distance) from the gyro, which shouldn't be an issue. I could mount it on the transom wall or maybe in the ER somewhere.

[Scarlett]

Pascal I know what you mean about the air system on Lazzarras . I just surveyed an 80 cockpit and when I asked to see the stabilizers in action, the owner just said they don’t work. As to boat builders using the Quick, Maritimo in Australia is using them as standard equipment on some of their boats. John

[rustybucket]

Rusty, what kind of warranty is offered with the Quick unit?

QuickUSA warranty:
2 year/2000 hours warranty. A third year/1000 hour extended warranty is available.

Seakeeper warranty. This warranty is for the following period, whichever occurs first:


36 months (3 years) from the date of shipment from SEAKEEPER, INC., factory
Or, 24 months (2 years) from date the product put into service, which shall conclusively be presumed to be the date of sale of a vessel, on which a SEAKEEPER, INC., product is installed, to a retail customer or date put into service on an existing vessel (refit).
Or, 2000 (two thousand) operating SEA hours, subject to verification and confirmation by SEAKEEPER, INC.,
Or, for OEM demonstration or stock boats, the warranty will begin one (1) year after date of commissioning or after 200 recorded (operating) SEA hours, if this use is prior to delivery to a retail customer.


So really the warranties are pretty much the exact same.

[ageless]

QuickUSA warranty:
2 year/2000 hours warranty. A third year/1000 hour extended warranty is available.

Seakeeper warranty. This warranty is for the following period, whichever occurs first:


36 months (3 years) from the date of shipment from SEAKEEPER, INC., factory
Or, 24 months (2 years) from date the product put into service, which shall conclusively be presumed to be the date of sale of a vessel, on which a SEAKEEPER, INC., product is installed, to a retail customer or date put into service on an existing vessel (refit).
Or, 2000 (two thousand) operating SEA hours, subject to verification and confirmation by SEAKEEPER, INC.,
Or, for OEM demonstration or stock boats, the warranty will begin one (1) year after date of commissioning or after 200 recorded (operating) SEA hours, if this use is prior to delivery to a retail customer.

So really the warranties are pretty much the exact same.



wow!! thank you

[Photolomy]

rusty, hurry up and do the quick, so I know if it is something in my future.:)

[Wiredup62]

Anybody have new info on these GYROS? Has the Quick units gained popularity? I am thinking about adding a unit to my boat. SK is very popular in the mid atlantic.

[GCSI]

I recently installed a gyro stabilization system on a 75’ MY. While doing due dilligance, I compared the two available Gyro only based systems from every conceivable perspective. The final conclusion? The price Delta between existing Gyro based systems was not sufficient to overcome;
1). Differences in support network.
2). History: one manufacturer has thousands of installs and booming buisiness, other is struggling to gain traction.

The price to remove legacy Fins and install Zero Speed Fins was very close to price of Gyro System. I chose to go with a belt and suspenders approach: legacy fin system for high speed cruise with Gyro for slow and at rest.

VERY happy with results, will never own another boat without a Zero Speed System of some sort. However, price did sting a little...

[piripucha]

These gyro stabilization system look very interesting - on paper - The concept is quite simple but the implementation its my belief is getting to complicated. If I would consider installing one, I would choose the simpler one ( KISS). Sofisticated systems have the bad habit of screwing up on a salt water enviroment. As a broker friend of mine told me: do not sell the boat, change the wife.! She was not amused.

[rustybucket]

I recently installed a gyro stabilization system on a 75’ MY. While doing due dilligance, I compared the two available Gyro only based systems from every conceivable perspective. The final conclusion? The price Delta between existing Gyro based systems was not sufficient to overcome;
1). Differences in support network.
2). History: one manufacturer has thousands of installs and booming buisiness, other is struggling to gain traction.

The price to remove legacy Fins and install Zero Speed Fins was very close to price of Gyro System. I chose to go with a belt and suspenders approach: legacy fin system for high speed cruise with Gyro for slow and at rest.

VERY happy with results, will never own another boat without a Zero Speed System of some sort. However, price did sting a little...

So which brand gyro did you decide on going with?

[GCSI]

SeaKeeper

[nautibake]

These gyro stabilization system look very interesting - on paper - The concept is quite simple but the implementation its my belief is getting to complicated. If I would consider installing one, I would choose the simpler one ( KISS). Sofisticated systems have the bad habit of screwing up on a salt water enviroment. As a broker friend of mine told me: do not sell the boat, change the wife.! She was not amused.

FWIW, we have 700 hours logged (and not "on paper") with 2 Seakeepers with absolutely no issues other than with the March raw water cooling pumps (they are not self-priming, and they require sea water for cooling). I finally added some in-line sensors so I know immediately if they've lost prime. We had one Seakeeper service (required at 2000 hours or 5 years) and it was under $2000 for both units. We are fans of Seakeeper, and yes, although technically "sofisticated" they perform flawlessly. When we have good raw water flow we have a green indication, when they are red we need to check the raw water pumps. These units are extremely well-built and the support from the company is phenomenal.

[Wiredup62]

FWIW, we have 700 hours logged (and not "on paper") with 2 Seakeepers with absolutely no issues other than with the March raw water cooling pumps (they are not self-priming, and they require sea water for cooling). I finally added some in-line sensors so I know immediately if they've lost prime. We had one Seakeeper service (required at 2000 hours or 5 years) and it was under $2000 for both units. We are fans of Seakeeper, and yes, although technically "sofisticated" they perform flawlessly. When we have good raw water flow we have a green indication, when they are red we need to check the raw water pumps. These units are extremely well-built and the support from the company is phenomenal.

Great info, what in line sensors did you use?

[ageless]

2). History: one manufacturer has thousands of installs and booming buisiness, other is struggling to gain traction.



I think it's only fair to mention that struggling traction is in the U.S, the Quick units have been in the Italian market for awhile. They've only been available in the U.S for two years

Personally, I find being able to maintain the unit without pulling it from the vessel and not having to put another thru hull in seems attractive

My research revealed the pumps have been an issue from the origination, how come they haven't figured that out yet? The fact they have an extensive line of refurbish units is concerning

[nautibake]

Great info, what in line sensors did you use?

Maretron SIM100 module ($400 on Amazon, plugs into an existing N2K network) and these are the sensors:

1.5" FPT Cooling Water Flow Switch
MSRP $99
Part Number: 10271

https://www.maretron.com/products/sim100.php

click on the "Accessories" tab and scroll down to see the flow sensors. They come in 1", 1 and 1/2" and 2". Fairly simple install and config. They've really been a huge improvement. BTW, the Seakeeper will run about 4 hours without raw water cooling (ask me how I know). When they reach a certain internal temp they go into automatic shut-down mode before any damage can be done. Also, the Seakeeper manual says you can shut them down on your way into your destination and they can wind down for several hours without cooling flow. Just some more context...

[Wiredup62]

Maretron SIM100 module ($400 on Amazon, plugs into an existing N2K network) and these are the sensors:

1.5" FPT Cooling Water Flow Switch
MSRP $99
Part Number: 10271

https://www.maretron.com/products/sim100.php

click on the "Accessories" tab and scroll down to see the flow sensors. They come in 1", 1 and 1/2" and 2". Fairly simple install and config. They've really been a huge improvement. BTW, the Seakeeper will run about 4 hours without raw water cooling (ask me how I know). When they reach a certain internal temp they go into automatic shut-down mode before any damage can be done. Also, the Seakeeper manual says you can shut them down on your way into your destination and they can wind down for several hours without cooling flow. Just some more context...

Thanks!!

[rsmith]

From what I remember considering the cost of the gyros you got the boat for free.


Maretron SIM100 module ($400 on Amazon, plugs into an existing N2K network) and these are the sensors:

1.5" FPT Cooling Water Flow Switch
MSRP $99
Part Number: 10271

https://www.maretron.com/products/sim100.php

click on the "Accessories" tab and scroll down to see the flow sensors. They come in 1", 1 and 1/2" and 2". Fairly simple install and config. They've really been a huge improvement. BTW, the Seakeeper will run about 4 hours without raw water cooling (ask me how I know). When they reach a certain internal temp they go into automatic shut-down mode before any damage can be done. Also, the Seakeeper manual says you can shut them down on your way into your destination and they can wind down for several hours without cooling flow. Just some more context...

[rsmith]

I’ve often wondered about how much stress these put on the stringers. Fin type stabs are mounted where the arm from the cg is significantly more. If you understand weight arm and moment it’s a lot of stress on a very short arm. The mainstay of my charter business when I kept the boat up north was overnight swordfish trips so we did a lot of drift fishing in some nasty conditions in the North Atlantic. You could tell when things were picking up when the chine came out of the water and you’d hear a kaboom when the boat rolled to the down sea side. I just have to wonder how effective the gyro is fighting the natural roll of the boat. It would seem you could be taking waves in the cockpit rather than rolling with them.

[Cricket]

Once you have drifted, especially overnight, with a gyro running you're not going to want to go on a boat without one. Boat sort of just bobs up and down in the swell with out the violent rocking. Makes a huge difference kite fishing and trolling when it's shitty.

[Photolomy]

What % does your generator run during the night to keep the gyros running?

[SKYCHENEY]

But do the gyros attract fish or scare them off?

[nautibake]

From what I remember considering the cost of the gyros you got the boat for free.

Yes Sir, but then, we’ve managed to spend (invest?) another 1.5 times the purchase price.

[nautibake]

What % does your generator run during the night to keep the gyros running?

The gyros draw 3k each while spooling up, and 1.5kw each to maintain 8k RPM. Our GenSet is 21Kw so it’s not even breathing hard with gyros and all AC plus water maker plus washer dryer, etc.

[nautibake]

But do the gyros attract fish or scare them off?

Good question, the underwater lights attract the fish, but then the DD thrum brings them in from miles away it seems...

[nautibake]

Once you have drifted, especially overnight, with a gyro running you're not going to want to go on a boat without one. Boat sort of just bobs up and down in the swell with out the violent rocking. Makes a huge difference kite fishing and trolling when it's shitty.

We don’t do a ton of fishing but when do this is certainly true.

[nautibake]

I’ve often wondered about how much stress these put on the stringers. Fin type stabs are mounted where the arm from the cg is significantly more. If you understand weight arm and moment it’s a lot of stress on a very short arm. The mainstay of my charter business when I kept the boat up north was overnight swordfish trips so we did a lot of drift fishing in some nasty conditions in the North Atlantic. You could tell when things were picking up when the chine came out of the water and you’d hear a kaboom when the boat rolled to the down sea side. I just have to wonder how effective the gyro is fighting the natural roll of the boat. It would seem you could be taking waves in the cockpit rather than rolling with them.

We had a naval architect come on board to do a prelim structural assessment ahead of some significant upgrades (repower, refit) and he was particularly focused on the effect of the Seakeepers. He could not detect any issues related to the mounting or operation of the Seakeepers.

[scottinsydney]

Where did you mount the Seakeeper in your 58'?

[nautibake]

Where did you mount the Seakeeper in your 58'?

The PO had them mounted on the main stringers directly underneath the master berth, just forward of the rudder table. They installed a piano hinge across the top of the bed frame so it tilts up to access the 2 Seakeepers. I installed some gas lift struts under the bed so it’s much easier to access the space. I rarely need to open it for any other reason than most people that come on board want to see it.