Magnetic Fuel Treatment

[Soffer]

It sounds like snake oil, but a distributor of these 'magic" black boxes has offered to give me one free for trial with one my DD 6-71's to prove they work. I'm sorry, but I'm still skeptical. I read the articles on BoatDiesel.com and the results are inconclusive.

The distitibutor is persistent and mailed me one this week. Visual observation reveals a 6" aluminium cylinder with (2) "rare earth" 4" magnets on spaced ~1/8" apart.

Before I install this thing, I was wondering if anyone else has experience with similar items.

GENISIS - As the undisputed engine expert on this forum, I would particularly like your input. Are there any risks if I go ahead with the trial?

[holley]

I have 1968 41 convertible it came with magnetic in stalled on both engines and 1 on gen. no trouble first 2 years used boat over 300 hrs each year,but last year I got water in fuel now I have lots of algae in both tanks. I didn't get to use the boat last year. So if you let boat sit for any time magnetic can't and don't work. You have move fuel and if you are moving fuel your putting new fuel in and everything will be OK. Called catch22.

Holley

[Passages]

I've seen the ads - 10% better fuel economy, elimination of harmful emissions - I don't believe it.

BUT, you've got one for free? Go slap it on, can't see what harm it could do. Use one engine as a "control" and the other as a "treated" and report your findings back on this forum.

[Cocoon]

I'm not an expert on this, but have done a lot of research on the topic. While algea-x and others have produced a number of 'scientific' papers and claim the US Navy and Coast Guard as clients, I have not seen or heard of any conclusive research on the matter. A people swear they work; most people seem to think they don't do anything useful. My position is: "If it were real, everyone else would have one."

The other responder who noted it can't do ANYTHING if fuel isn't flowing through it -- is correct!!

Ed :b

[Genesis]

I ran a LONG test on these a couple of years ago.

Most of what is clogging up stuff is not "algae" (which isn't anyway, its a bacteria - algae requires LIGHT to grow)

Most of it is particulate agglomeration and drop-out from the fuel. The magnetic devices appear to prevent this, which keeps the black gritty crap from plugging things up.

The devices are VERY EXPENSIVE though. And as noted, you have to actually pass fuel through them to do anything. So if you don't run the boat much, they may not do a lot for you.

But if you do, they do work. The nonsense about disrupting biological processes is bunk - but for the particulate drop-out problems, they actually do appear to do the job.

I'll be damned if I can explain it - all I can tell you is that I did A/B tests (inline .vs. offline), with the ability to switch with a valve throw - and went from black filters in 20 hours of running time to clear ones in 100, and when I "challenged" the system by turning it OFF, the black filters immediately returned.

No other changes were made.

I can't tell you why it works, and everything I know about biological processes and magnets says it shouldn't do a thing. Yet it does.

There 'ya have it.

They won't hurt anything - go ahead and put them in, if they're free. Run 'em for a couple of months. If they're worthless in your application send 'em back.

See www.denninger.net/snake-oil-1.htm (http://www.denninger.net/snake-oil-1.htm) for a write-up I did on my testing of these units a couple of years ago.

[Soffer]

That was an amazing link.

The unit I have is not an Algae-X, it's called a "VOSGES Super Catalyzer". There is no filter associated with it. Should it be installed before or after my Primary Filter? (I have Dahl's) I would think after would be better but I'm open to suggestions.

[Cocoon]

I took a look at the website pointed to by the link. While I'm sure the fuel put into the two separate tanks was basically the same, we don't know what the condition/contents of those tanks were before the fuel was added. It is clearly possible that one tank was (and remains) contaminated while the other was/is not.

However, if you're happy and convinced -- that's what counts!

Ed

[jim rosenthal]

I agree that these devices don't harm anything (except maybe your autopilot or fluxgate compass if they are too close to it) but if they work I have yet to see an explanation as to why they do.
Clearly they do not kill living organisms. If that were the case, we would be treating infections by putting patients in MRI machines. We don't do this, obviously, because it doesn't work. MRI scanners generate a magnetic field of far greater intensity than the permanent magnets in these devices, and yet no living tissue is harmed by it. Having said all that, I have a lot of respect for Karl and his postings, which are the result of careful thought and experience. If he noticed a difference, then there was something to it. I can't think, though, of any explanation as to why magnetic fields would reverse particle agglomeration or re-polymerization of organic molecules in diesel fuel. I hope that someone, someday, publishes the definitive article on this that puts the questions to rest for good and all.

[Genesis]

The last picture is of two filters.

BOTH DREW FROM THE SAME TANK.

First the "no Algae-X" filter was run, then the other, then I "challenged" the clean filter by turning the filter OFF. There is a "Y" valve upstream from the device. You choose either of the two filters to pass the fuel through - then it goes to ONE engine.

That was what stunned me - and when I went back and "challenged" the system by turning it off, with a new element, the new one was immediately fouled.

I do not believe that most people who have fuel problems have "algae" (or anything else growing) in their fuel. Sure, a few do, and if you're one of those folks, I bet these boxes do NOTHING.

I DO believe most people have particulate drop-out.

WHY these devices stop this, I do not know.

The filters speak for themselves; good luck trying to discredit the visual evidence.

Remember here guys:

Same tank, same fuel, same engine. Only difference is that one filter has the Algae-X "box" upstream of it, the other does not, and there is a grand total of 6" of hose between the "Y" valve and the filter inlets.

And runtime on the "enabled" filter is more than TWICE that of the "disabled" (and fouled) one.

[jkp1]

Genesis -

During your tests, did you notice any improvement in fuel economy?

[Genesis]

... but, I do not have flowscans, and the differences would have to be DRAMATIC for me to be able to peg them to the units.

My subjective "feel" is that there was a small improvement, however, it was not enough for me to be able to quantify it against the margin of error.

Without flowscans or similar, there's no way to get precise enough to KNOW.

[mike]

Any idea as the the polarity of the magnetics in relationship to the flow and adjacent magnetics? I have some very high gauss magnetics that i want to try. Thanks, Mike

[Soffer]

The Vostec system uses "rare earth" magnets with a claimed gauss of 10,000. Pole orientation is N-S, S-N. The magnets are oriented parrallel to the fuel flow.

Out of curosity, I took one apart. Inside is a 1/8" x 1" passage for fuel; (2) 1/8" x 1" x 4" non-magnetic metal (aluminium?) liners and (2) outer sandwich magnets of same size. The magnets are VERY powerful. I placed a bolt head on the end of the magnets and it took considerable effort to remove it.

I have one on my oil furnace at home, but like Genesis, it hard to quantify improvement without proper measurement devices. I plan on putting another one on one of my boats DD 6-71 engines. The other engine would act as a "control" unit . Not a perfect test environment but good enough to get a sense for any changes in performance.

If you'd like to run a test on your own, it should be pretty simple. Take your high gauss magnets and strattle them around your fuel line as close as possible to the injectors. Fashion 2 wooden frames to hold the magnets parrallel around the fuel line. Secure using tie wraps.

[Mike]

Thanks for the info, I'll use one of my 8v71's engine as a control. The magnetics are used in our processing systems for magnetic confinement of plasma. I'll get the specs on the gauss value, I know they are reported to be very high and like yours, when tested I could only remove them from a metal surface by a sliding motion. Mike

[dmohring]

I had the Algae-X units installed on my 53' with 8V71TI. The were recomended by my mechanic, who I respect and by the Detroit Diesel people. I talked at length with Bill Miller at Algae-X and was convinced to try them. The proof of the pudding is that they work. You do have to run your engines reguarly for them to work correctly. I am installing a small fuel pump motor in the line so I can run fuel through the Racor and magnetic fuel conditioner and polish the fuel when I am not using the the boat often.

Have been very impressed with my service and advice with the company and my contact, Bill Miller. There web site is www.algae-x.net.

[34Hatt]

What the Magnets do is helps the filters efficiency what happens is the molecules of the same charge clump together + to + , - to -. So when the molecules pass though the opposing fields it separates them. We do the same thing here at work www.bnl.gov/rhic/ (http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/) so it is more efficient. So this is why you place them on the supply side of the filter and as close as possible. One thing about the Algae X one's and any other one that get plumbed into the system is I have seen them clog. That right it was filled with rust it was a boat that did go to the Bahamas a lot so it was figured most of it came from there. I put on a set that clamps on over the hose's and no leaks to worry about, and as a precaution when I change my filters I take them off prior and run the motors to let anything that is building up go into the filter.

[ELECTRA VI]

I would be very interested to know how you are doing that. I have had the ALGAE-X installed on my boat since November. Can you advise you procedure? My email address is g.jeandheur@att.net. Thanks George Jeandheur

[34Hatt]

Well as I said mine clamp on over the hose so you can't do the same as I do. What you could do is pull the front cover off the Algae-X unit and do a visual inspection and see if there is anything collecting on the magnets. I think every 100 hrs or once a season is enough something you can do each winter unless the motor is starving for fuel then check it first. I have some good pictures of the unit with all the rust stuck to it if you want I can email it to you.

[captcoop]

Can you tell me where you found the clamp on magnet system? THANKS

[34Hatt]

I got them the same place as my additive I use www.AJX.US I think the magnets might be on the web site not sure but you can call them. They take about 5 mins to install.