New used Boat

[Trojan]

I'm looking at a 1973 Hatteras MY,FB.Nothing special.Plain 6-71 DD.The boat has been out of the water for 2 1/2 years and not going back in this summer.It is a fresh water boat.I think it was put up by the Marina for the winter, short storage.I have not been inside the boat.The outside hull looks great. I'm informed the electronics are nothing great,old.Nada rates the boat high retail 81K,65K low,so I don't understand the asking price of 125K.I'm not new to boats,I have a 32Ft. now.I like the boat.I'm looking for a live aboard.Any ideas on were to start before I get a survey.I've read quit a few of the threads on this board and have many thoughts.I know My answers are out there.I want to start a check list before I go aboard.Any ideas guys?Help! BILL

[PascalG]

waht size is it? did you compare with other similars on yach world? that will tell you what the average asking price is and if the NADA is on target... figure 10 % off asking price on average but that's still a huge difference...

out of the water you can check for the obvious like spongy decks, evidence of leaks, etc... but not much more. I'd be concerned about a boat that's been sitting for 2 1/2 years... condition of the fuel system, etc... if you make an offer, do a sea trial to make sure (most of) everything is working before spending money on the survey...

pascal
Miami,fl
1970 53 MY

[Genesis]

.. on larger vessels. BucValu is a bit better, but even they're way off.

The problem with NADA is that there is no large secondary market for a given make/model/year on larger boats, so they just use a statistical formula. That's worthless. For smaller boats (up to 26' or so) that are mass-produced they're reasonably accurate, but not for larger vessels.

There's a LOT to look at on a boat of this size and type. Find someone who knows boats in your area to go with you and look her over, and then tell them that before you write an offer or do a survey you want to see it running in the water.

2-1/2 years is a long time, and its possible that there is a LOT of stuff that needs attention - and every dime of it should come, dollar for dollar, off your offer.

[Trojan]

The boats a 43 ft.I goofed left that out sorry.Bill

[PascalG]

asking 125 seem to be an average asking price for the 20 or so boat listed on yachtworld... (although there is one at 278k.. completly refurbshed but with 700 hours on the engines!)

When I was looking for the 53 last year, finding a boat that was used and didn't jsut sit in a slip was failry important to me to avoid surprises, so I'd guess price for a boat that's been sitting on the hard for over 2 years woudl have to reflect the risks... even if it looks good on the outside...

pascal

[FreestyleBruce]

I purchased a 1976 43 DCMY (flybridge) in 2002 after looking at several and negotiating a purchase price on two other. The asking prices on Yachtworld seem about the same now as then and had no correlation with NADA but some with BUC. I focused my purchase on the condition of the DD 6/71's and overall appearance of the boat and the systems that had worn out. I chased two boats in seemingly better condition than I bought and could not get them to my maximum price $120k. The broker quietly told me that both of the boats I had chased sold for around $130k. They were beautiful with many upgrades.

I paid $117 for a mechanically solid boat with a queen size bed upgrade in the aft stateroom. It was not as cosmetically clean as I wanted and had limited electronics. I have spent money in these two areas but otherwise the boat has met all of my expectations during the last 850 hours of cruising. So I am slightly better off than if I had paid $130k for the other boats assuming they would not have cost me any money in the areas described below.

If you want to start at the bottom of the price range ($90k or so) be prepared to spend some money. They say DD overhauls are about $12k per engine. On the house side, figure $1k per head and another $800 for water heater. Figure $1k if you have to solve a refrigerator problem too. Electronics will cost whatever you want to spend. A canvas aft enclosure will run a startling $3500. A generator will be $11k. Finally, you can pay a lot or a little if the boat has blisters and they bother you. (Thankfully mine doesn't)

I guess my conclusion is that you can either buy or make a really nice one of these boats for around $130k. You just have to decide which way you want to approach the target.

[captbuddy]

Last summer I visited a Broker in Orange Beach which handled hatteras boats. I asked if he could tell me what a perticular used hatteras was worth and he stated he could not but he could tell me what they sold for recently. He printed out a list of my boat in question giving me when they sold within the previous 3 years and the price they sold for. Check with a hatteras broker. I tryed to access this site after getting home and was unable to. It must be a site just for brokers. Hope this helps.

[Genesis]

.... is that whether a particular boat is a "good" or "bad" deal for the money is all about condition once they're 5 or so years old.

Warranties are expired, so you're writing your own with your checkbook. If the boat was well-maintained and everything is in good shape, they hold their value well.

To the extent this is not true, value starts to fall precipitously, even outrageously, and in many cases the boat is not even worth it if you get it for free!

The trick is not getting one of the latter while thinking you got one of the former until after the check clears!

[buzyacht]

There is a broker only area of Yachtworld that can access all boats reported sold and selling price as reported by the broker. Most of the time the broker posts the correct selling price but occassionally not. Good source. I would advise using a surveyor and some of them are members of Yachtworld also.

[spartonboat1]

I have had a 1972 43' MY with the J&T 310hp 6-71 Detroits, since 1997. The engines and the Twin-Disc trannies are tough as they get- they are both commercial grade. According to Twin-Disc "they may never wear out, provided you keep the oil changed in the trans and don't shift in and out of gear at high engine speed." If they have been treated right the trannies should be good.

The 6-71's are not hopped up to 485 hp, since they probably are not turbo-charged (the charger on them is a roots type "scavenger" charger, that only acts to blow out the exhaust gasses and push in fresh air) so are not nearly as stressed, so last longer. P.s., the 6-71's have a rep as leakers...but I think they run so long that the seals and hoses leak. Replace the hoses! Go to new Aeroquips...do them all for $3K. My oil consumption has dropped way off, since doing so.

Although there are many comments on this site here about pokey Hatts, there are also many remarks about the how these are great riding boats! It is almost a given. Yes, the new 54-65' Hatt CNV's can run 35knots through heavy seas, since they weigh 80-90K lbs, and run 1,400hp. But then $1.8M can do that for you.

I am surprised how many tests of new boats in the 40-50' range rave about taking on a 3' chop...while these old 43's run that without breaking a sweat.

Case in point, due to a highly inaccurate weather forecast (worst year for inaccurate forecasts I have ever seen...in 40 years on the Great Lakes) I thought I had to make a run for it to beat a Gale level storm (never happened) but I ran through building quartering head seas that reached 4-6'. I checked down slightly to 2000 rpm which is about 13.5-14 knots (usually run 2,150, since one engine is a little tired and due for rebuild next year). Yes, we threw lots of spray, but it was not a bad ride. The G'children rode in the aft cabin watching TV and playing cards...no complaints. But if you went to the V-berth forward, you had to have your sea legs on. I do see complaints about 43's rolling in a beam sea, such as a wake from a passing boat. I have been known to turn the steering wheel to get them off my beam and turn into them...works great, so what a concept.

No, I can't beat the waves down like a 1410 club boat, but the relatively deep-V slices the sea. I have gone out with 4-5 other boats, only to see them turn around. I have had boats try to pass, only to go airborne and drop back behind.

So what is plain is elegant.

For value, find a surveyor with an attitude...better yet a good ABYC veteran boat tech. Take a tour and take notes or get the survey.

My big issues are: 1) Hull and fittings, esp. cutlass bearings, blisters ($8K for a good barrier coating; you should barrier coat eventually). 2) Powertrain...6-71's could be great, but if sitting 2-3 years, all the impellers have taken a set and are shot. All the filters should be replaced and the fuel "polished" if can. A good engine guy should survey them. Williams can do a very, very detailed one for $3K, if you are deadly serious about it.

If tired, they can be in-frame rebuilt for $2-3K/hole, depending on what is needed. 3) Electrical...big problem on older boats is that many mods have occurred over the years and have been done poorly. The original electricals hold up pretty well, if not beat up. 4) Genny was an Onan 2 cyl diesel. If started, should smoke like crazy at first, because only 1 cyl is helped, while the other has to warm up, before firing...hence the smoke. After started and warmed 3-4 minutes, should not smoke. 5) Holding tanks- the original brass pumpout pickups rot off at half length, so that the tanks are full of kludge. The cure is to get replacements installed, which are poly from Hatt or Sams. But when you do, all the accumulated kludge needs to be removed, since it may have set up. Worse yet, they may not have been pumped before going up on the hard.

Final remarks is that the 43's is a great boat, whose strong engineering and simplicity is a strength. They can get you home in a blow, with a good ride, run and run and are safe, in my opinion.

Make a list of all the work that the surveyor recommends and get it priced out. Sooner or later, you will need to pay for that, esp. if hull or engine related...since that gets you there and back. Back it out of the asking price, if the seller has not already factored it in.

Bear in mind that a new Tiara or some of the other new 43-45' boats are running $0.8-1.1mill...you will not suffer nearly the value drop as a new boat, if much at all, if you buy right.

50 years on the Great Lakes.

[Walter Pereira]

Re: last remarks about 43 MY....... AMEN Walt