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rwappleton
05-09-2013, 12:04 AM
One of the stuffing boxes bit the dust so We are replacing both.

Anyone heard of PSS shaft seals?

How about some advice on what is available and what has worked for you. I am not a fan of dripless. They just look like a problem looking for a place to happen.

Tell me I am Crazy.:cool:

saltshaker
05-09-2013, 12:26 AM
I had PSS dripless shaft seals on my 46C for 11 years. Never did anything to them and never an issue.

Fanfare
05-09-2013, 04:05 AM
I have the Tidesmarine dripless seals. www.tidesmarine.com

In trying to decide between these and PSS I decided to go with Tides because that was what Hatteras was installing on new boats. Seemed like a good recommendation. Also, I could put spare seals in a plastic keeper on each shaft, and be able to replace without hauling. I have lost track of when I installed them, but probably 10 years ago. No leaks, and I have not had to use any of the replacement seals. Since these are water lubricated rubber reinforced lip seals which have the shaft turning inside of them it would seem that they should wear and leak. They don't. I have been quite satisfied.

TopHattandTails
05-09-2013, 07:02 AM
I have the PSS. There fine. No issues in my tenure (6 years). No idea when they were installed. Just need to make sure you either install cross water lubrication to them or wrench tie the shaft if you ever have one engine not working. You'll burn (any) drip less up if the shaft turns without lubrication.

Capt Paul
05-09-2013, 08:01 AM
I installed them on twin engines two boats ago. They worked flawlessly as advertised. My new to me LRC already has them installed and by all accounts have performed just as well. These do not have the water lubrication which is reportedly not necessary due to my displacement speed. So if you ever lost an engine it is not necessary to lock the shaft due to the shaft seal if you limp home at slow speed. I am very pleased with the performance of this product.

oldawg
05-09-2013, 08:26 AM
I have the PSS. There fine. No issues in my tenure (6 years). No idea when they were installed. Just need to make sure you either install cross water lubrication to them or wrench tie the shaft if you ever have one engine not working. You'll burn (any) drip less up if the shaft turns without lubrication.

New Tides model have crossover hose.

LUV'N LIFE
05-09-2013, 08:38 AM
I have PSS seals, no problems in almost 9 years. I did replace the bellows and associated hardware and o rings a couple years ago as PSS recommends replacement at seven years and I was not sure of their age. My only concern with the installation is any movement of the stainless rotating face away from the carbon seal could cause a great influx of water. For piece of mind I installed a shaft sink on each shaft behind the stainless collar leaving 1/8" space as a slippage witness.

MikeP
05-09-2013, 08:44 AM
"So if you ever lost an engine it is not necessary to lock the shaft due to the shaft seal if you limp home at slow speed. "

Most of these boats have Allison M series transmissions and the shaft of a non-running engine needs to be locked to avoid transmission damage regardless of what sort of shaft seal you may have.

rwappleton
05-09-2013, 10:43 AM
Mike,

I have capital gears 1.5X1. Do they need to be locked down when it's not running?

Thanks,

Russ:cool:

34Hatt
05-09-2013, 10:55 AM
"So if you ever lost an engine it is not necessary to lock the shaft due to the shaft seal if you limp home at slow speed. "

Most of these boats have Allison M series transmissions and the shaft of a non-running engine needs to be locked to avoid transmission damage regardless of what sort of shaft seal you may have.


Well we are talking shaft seals here not everyone has Allision plus that has been BEAT to death here all ready.

PSS are great if you keep a eye out you will see Slane, Athens and many other top notch repower guys use them the most, just change the bellows every ten years. I have had them since 06

Pascal
05-09-2013, 12:50 PM
PSS use a face seal so the seal is not in contact with the shaft.

Sure seals use a seal in contact with the shaft. Any corrosion on the shaft will affect the seal.

I ve had PSS on a previous boat and had no issues for 6 years. We have tides on the 70 I run and in 5 years I ve used one spare on each shaft. I can't say they are 100% bone dry all the time, sometimes a little wiggle cures it. I think I prefer PSS

Beckytek
05-09-2013, 01:20 PM
I've owned my boat for ten years now and it came with the standard stuffing boxes. My starboard shaft has never been touched and it doesn't leak a drop. I just replaced the port shaft stuffing over the winter that has been there for 9 years. So far it doesn't leak a drop either. I don't see any advantage with drip less couplings. Just my 2 cents.

Will
05-09-2013, 03:34 PM
Yes Russ,

With Capital Gears, you need to lock your shaft if it turns and the engine is not running.

Will

Fanfare
05-09-2013, 04:03 PM
I went 29 years with stuffing boxes and, other than the occasional tweak, they were fine. But in 1993 we re-engined and had to replace both shafts with Aquamet 22 due to the increased horsepower. Somehow, while everything was apart, the supplied nuts and bolts of the stbd. muff coupling were lost, misplaced or stolen. Unknown to me all 8 on this coupling were replaced with ordinary steel. So the following year we left Ft. Lauderdale for Cay Cay. Sometime in the middle vibration began increasing. At Cat Cay I dove on the propellers, expecting to find some line wrapped around a prop. Instead, the four bolts at each end of the muff coupling had simply disappeared. Only the center four were retaining the stub shaft and propeller. The other shaft was fine. Fortunately I had my dive gear. I had eight new bolt assemblies flown in, replaced the stbd. side bolts, and returned to the yard in Ft. L. for hauling, replacement, and relaunch, all at their expense. The remaining ordinary steel bolts disintegrated as I unfastened them. Unfortunately I did not think to have the entire shaft and stub pulled and checked for damage. I probably should have, since for the next several years that stuffing box leaked, and no packing or tightening could stop it for long--like daily. Meanwhile the yard went belly up, so no additional recovery. When I gave up and installed the dripless seals the leaking problem was solved. I don't remember whether I had the shaft trued at that time. Anyway, no problems since.

MikeP
05-09-2013, 05:24 PM
"Well we are talking shaft seals here not everyone has Allision plus that has been BEAT to death here all ready."

I mentioned it because the discussion up till then might lead someone WITHOUT the dripless seals to assume that a free-spinning shaft has no other potential problems, thus ending up with a very expensive tranny repair bill caused by not locking down the shaft.

SeaEric
05-09-2013, 05:37 PM
Ok. It begs the question (thread hijack) How exactly do you "lock down" a shaft? Of course, you'd be on the fly in a hot engine room with limited resources at hand...

Discuss....

captddis
05-09-2013, 05:59 PM
I can usually lock a shaft with line. Put a colve hitch and a few wraps on the coupling and tie the other end to something solid. I ran 400 miles like that with no issue. Shafts are 2 1/2".
Smaller shafts can often be locked with a pipe wrench, just need a little imagination.

MikeP
05-09-2013, 06:06 PM
I had to lock a shaft (2") on our 53 up on LI sound for about 10 miles and did it with a pair of vice grips on one of the shaft coupling bolts. The vice grips then locked against a stringer and held the shaft for the 10 miles at around 6 knots.

SeaEric
05-09-2013, 08:02 PM
I was thinking vice grips. Note to self: Buy a big ass pair of vice grips.

TopHattandTails
05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
I got myself a nice big (as in don't drop it on your foot and its 4' long - big) pipe wrench that sits in the anchor locker, at the ready to be sized and deployed on a shaft. It will rotate at the most half way round and then hit the stringer and hold the shaft. I've also found a nice piece of copper tube with some sort of attachment from the PO that I have no idea how it would work as a cross over - but that is what my mechanic thinks its for? Might make more sense to make up a cross over tube to run between the ER's, than fasten a pipe wrench...

MikeP
05-09-2013, 09:13 PM
"I've also found a nice piece of copper tube with some sort of attachment from the PO that I have no idea how it would work as a cross over - "

A crossover for what? What would a crossover tube do; what is it connected to? Sorry, I don't understand the application re locking a prop shaft with a "crossover tube." I apologize if I'm missing the obvious...

TopHattandTails
05-10-2013, 07:10 AM
Mike- 2 options for "taking care of a not working motor". 1) use a pipe wrench and lock the shaft from spinning; or 2) hook up the cross over tube to supply water from the working motor to the non working shaft seal. However this still doesn't take into consideration the Allison tranny issue.

Capt Paul
05-10-2013, 07:21 AM
Transmissions turning is a different story. I was careful to say that its not necessary to lock the shaft "due to the seals" but thanks for pointing this out.


"So if you ever lost an engine it is not necessary to lock the shaft due to the shaft seal if you limp home at slow speed. "

Most of these boats have Allison M series transmissions and the shaft of a non-running engine needs to be locked to avoid transmission damage regardless of what sort of shaft seal you may have.

MikeP
05-10-2013, 07:26 AM
"or 2) hook up the cross over tube to supply water from the working motor to the non working shaft seal."

AHA! Got it, thanks!

TopHattandTails
05-20-2013, 10:59 PM
So no sooner than I replied "how great PSS shaft seals" are, I learned the hard way about the maintenance schedule. Evidently you need to change out the bellows and shaft collar every 6-10 years. So on launch day I found a bilge light on. Went below to verify and the bellows were gushing like a firehose (which instantly ruins your sun set cruise in 82 degree weather, Jimmy buffet in the background, and adult cocktails with buddies). Turns out full cruise, a bow wave, and a maintenance ready PSS put gallons of water in the ER, covers the shaft and throws water everywhere (thank god for fresh water boating)! Time to haul, replace bellows and collar and back in the water... PS- there was a day that this was intimidating...

Maynard Rupp
05-21-2013, 07:51 AM
I replaced our shaft packing with "Goretex". That was 3 years ago and they have been fine. They don't drip, need no maintenance and seem to last forever. A much easier change than installing dripless rubber seals with water tubes. The "Goretex" packing pieces cost me about $70.00. The only problem I had was that my Hatteras owners manual said our packing size is 1/2". When I pulled the first piece I found that it was really 3/8". That meant another 20 mile trip to the supplier's store.

34Hatt
05-21-2013, 08:16 AM
So no sooner than I replied "how great PSS shaft seals" are, I learned the hard way about the maintenance schedule. Evidently you need to change out the bellows and shaft collar every 6-10 years. So on launch day I found a bilge light on. Went below to verify and the bellows were gushing like a firehose (which instantly ruins your sun set cruise in 82 degree weather, Jimmy buffet in the background, and adult cocktails with buddies). Turns out full cruise, a bow wave, and a maintenance ready PSS put gallons of water in the ER, covers the shaft and throws water everywhere (thank god for fresh water boating)! Time to haul, replace bellows and collar and back in the water... PS- there was a day that this was intimidating...

Yes their paper work say 6 years! I know some that have gone 13 years But I would Never do that.

How old were yours?

bostonhatteras
05-21-2013, 09:18 AM
Did your shaft log boots show any sign of deterioration? I have the same seals and the boot shows no sign of dry rot, inflexibility or any of the telltale signs of rubber deterioration. In fact they are just as pliable now as they were the day they went in. Where and how did they break?

Plan B2
05-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Top
I have just had the PSS seals installed ansd would efinately appreciate any additional information regarding the inspection and maintenance schedules for these.

TopHattandTails
05-22-2013, 06:42 AM
Per PSS, the maintenance schedule is to replace the rubber boot every 6 years and to not reuse the set screws at that time. My boot is flexable, doesn't appear worn, cracked, brittle or otherwise. Once I figured out what the issue was, I put it in neutral, gave the boot a few squeezes and went back to the dock at 1500 rpm. Boat was and still is bone dry after the initial leak. Turns out this is not uncommon on older rubber boots. While at full cruise or WOT, the bow wave creates a force at the boot and allows water in like a fire hose. First suggestion is to put another 1/8" compression in the boot. If that doesn't work, haul and replace boot. I will have some tide detergent sprinkled about the bilge at the next test run... Plan B2- PM sent.

TopHattandTails
05-22-2013, 06:49 AM
I bought the boat 5 years ago, and the PSS seals were already installed then. No idea when they were replaced last (if ever). I also have my boat in a heated barn 6.5 months each year as well. It may be just that the boots need some time to get back into shape from being on the hard (it takes about a day or two for doors to go back into alignment), or to be burped upon splash... But their getting replaced shortly anyhow.

thoward
05-22-2013, 10:00 AM
I replaced our shaft packing with "Goretex". That was 3 years ago and they have been fine. They don't drip, need no maintenance and seem to last forever. A much easier change than installing dripless rubber seals with water tubes. The "Goretex" packing pieces cost me about $70.00.

I'm with you; simple, effective and little chance of catastrophic failure.