What are acceptable charges from a diesel mechanic?

[mikfin]

I had a mechanic come to my boat to work on the engines and generator. The guy did a really good job and was very personable. When I got the bill though, I was not pleased. It seems he charged $85/hr to drive to and from my house, and also to eat lunch on my patio. in addition, he charged $2/mile to drive to/from my house twice, which came out to $300 bucks. Is this for real? I don't know of anyone who gets paid their mechanic rate to drive to provide a service, AND charge a stiff mileage fee. Am I behind the times on this?

Cheers

[krush]

When I was fixing boats: If it was a long haul, I would tell the customer I'd have to charge him travel time. However, I was upfront with the cost and made sure this was ok with him.

[Boatsb]

We charge either or not both.

[Glory]

Have an auto mechanic, plumber, or any other trade come to the house, see if they have free time to drive over. If you don't think their travel time is fare, that means you likely expect them so spend time traveling to tour location at no charge. That isn't a good busines plan.

As for the $85 an hour, that's a good deal for a quality mechanic.

JM

[jim rosenthal]

I think charging for driving time AND mileage is not fair. It ought to be one or the other- not both. And I believe that is how it is done most of the time, at least in my experience.

[rmatt]

I think charging for driving time AND mileage is not fair. It ought to be one or the other- not both. And I believe that is how it is done most of the time, at least in my experience.

I worked for a major diesel engine dealer. The hourly charge is for the mechanic. If he was not driving to a job he would be pulling wrenches in the shop, thus making revenue. The mileage is for the vehicle expenses,purchase, fuel, maintenance and insurance. There is no money made for the company in the mileage charge.
Bob

[rsmith]

$2/mi is not unreasonable for a service truck. Now if the guy pulled up in a Yugo and had to go back to the shop everytime he needed a wrench then I'd bitch.

[magnawake]

This is a sore subject for me as well. I used to own a carpet cleaning service. I couldnt charge people mileage, they would laugh me out their house. I had a big heavy van W/ alot of equipment. Gas prices ate me up. Carpet cleaners, lawn maint, carpenters, roofers, bug sprayers all do not charge extra. I cant figure why a diesel mech with a small bag of tools think they can charge for the trip. The only reason is because people are willing to pay up. Same goes with tipping. The above meantioned dont get tipped. I got very few tips, and thats doing extra work for the customer (like a door mat) for free. But a hair beautitian, you need to tip. She didnt even do anything extra. I guy thats a dock hand, ties your boat up and we tip him. Well, heck thats his job. The Marina pays him well. But, if he helps you pump out, flush your waste tank, helps you hook up cable, electric, water, thats going above and beyond. He deserves a tip. I'll get off my soap box now. Oh yeah, another thing. The diesel Mech I have now came 25 miles one way and didnt charge me anything extra. He is a very popular Mech and stays booked up with work.

[saltshaker]

Interesting thread. I have a hard time paying for travel time or mileage unless the distance is significant. None of my clients pay me travel time unless it's over 50 miles each way. If I have to fly to a location then they pay my day rate. My mechanic is less than 15 minutes from my regular slip so I don't pay for travel. I don't think there should be a mileage charge either unless they are making parts runs or travel other than the normal to and from the job. I had a great AC guy that spent summers on his boat not too far from me. He moved an hour further south and then asked for a $300 travel fee. I understand this when you want him for a 2 or 3 hour service but not major work. The last time he was on my boat I spent over $5000. I had a dock neighbor who was billed $1100 for travel for 2 mechanics. The first time they showed up they pulled out the laptop, diagnosed the problem and then left. They were on the boat for less than 1/2 hour. Every time they come to the boat they never have the parts they need so another service call gets added to the bill. I think that's BS. When I had work done on my boat in Fl, the only travel pay I paid was for parts runs that were about an hour away. That's seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Bugsy]

I am hourly paid. My confreres and I charge 50% of the agreed hourly rate for travel time plus the actual cost incurred for transportation.

[Canuck Dennis]

Detroit Diesel in Vancouver charges full mechanics rate from the shop and back, 3 hrs total and then if the job requires some "lifting" the apprentice is charged out at full rate also..some of the boats at my dock pay up to 1500.00 + for an oil change

[Boatsb]

So what's wrong with paying someone for their time? I charge for travel if its over about a 15 minute run unless its a full day job then I just work it into my day. Mileage is probably more if you figure about 50the miles are average for an hour.

The point about the mechanic billing time at the shop is pretty much on target. Why do something for free when you would usually get paid for that time.

[Canuck Dennis]

The issue ..many of these mechanics live closer in to Vancouver DD is out in the bondocks...cheap realestate, even when they were doing a one week job on my boat, the guy drove out to his shhop every morning and ten drove all way in to town, not very customer accommodating cost wise.why also should I pay 120.00/hr for a first or second year app..??

[Steve Mannshardt]

Field mechanics are typically considered fully recoverable, hence the travel time and in most cases mileage to cover vehicle wear, tear etc.. In some rare cases travel time is at a reduced rate depending on local conditions.

High levels of productivity and labor recovery justifies more mechanics for the shop.

What is appropriate is if expected to pay full nut for a top tier tradesman, that if an apprentice is sent along to help that you pay a lesser rate for that person. You shouldn't be on the hook at full rate for apprentice OJT and skills development.

What you are seeing isn't exclusive to the marine customer. A service call is a service call.

Steve

[saltshaker]

So what's wrong with paying someone for their time? I charge for travel if its over about a 15 minute run unless its a full day job then I just work it into my day. Mileage is probably more if you figure about 50the miles are average for an hour.

The point about the mechanic billing time at the shop is pretty much on target. Why do something for free when you would usually get paid for that time.

The hourly rate in the shop includes the shop and other overhead. The marine mechanic coming to my boat is not incurring shop fees. Like I said before, how many of us get paid to travel to and from work? I agree with your thinking that if it's a full days work and not too far away, then there shouldn't be additional travel fees. I have no problem paying someone to travel to my boat if they aren't within 20-25 miles or if I only need a couple hours of work done. When I had my engine overhauled, my mechanic had a helper with him who was a competent mechanic. I have no problem paying full rate for each of them. When the boat was repowered, I had an argument with the yard because they were charging me $110 per hour for everyone who did anything on the boat. That included the guy who didn't speak English and spent an hour each day cleaning up after the mechanics. They also wanted me to pay for 9 hours of labor each day, 8 work and 1 hour lunch. Considering the fact that these were employees of the marina and the marina normally didn't pay them for their lunch break, I thought that was unreasonable. When someone is working on my boat at my location, I gladly pay them for their lunch brak and if I'm there I'll buy them lunch as well.

[George]

I think the 85/hour is reasonable, but I would sure like to get paid to go to work every day:cool:
I have a 65 minute in to work and 80 min drive home.

[Avenger]

You're not supposed to be paying these guys for their commute from home. Their employers don't, the IRS doesn't allow you to deduct company car expenses for it etc. Maybe that's why they're going to the shop first and then to the job. Of course, if they live five minutes away from the job and have to drive 1/2 hour to the shop and then back to the job that ain't too bright. However, it is not unreasonable to charge for their trip from the facility to you if it's more than a minor distance.

We've been on service calls on commercial ships and charged full rate from the time we left the shop until we got back. That includes time spent waiting because the ship was late, time spent waiting for them to hook up hoses and start offloading because they don't let anybody on a product tanker until they're offloading. Time spent waiting for the Chief Engineer to show up. Time spent waiting for the CG inspector to sign of on the work, etc.

All the time spent away from the shop is productive time lost that has to be compensated. We have literally billed 10 hours labor to walk onto a ship, turn a screw, and walk back off. It's comic if you phrase it as "turning screw $5.00, knowing which screw to turn, $995.00" but sometimes that's the reality. Unfortunately most jobs are a lot more complicated than that. But either way that time has to be paid for. The property taxes don't stop because the technician isn't in the shop that day, and now you've added the expense of a vehicle as well.

And no, I wouldn't charge for lunch. Employees don't get paid for it, the customer shouldn't have to pay for it either. Fraudulent billing is a whole other issue as well. If you're there for five hours and bill for a full day when you've gone down the dock to another job, that's just stealing. OTOH, time I spend on the phone is lost to me. I'd love to get set up like an attorney so I can bill for answering questions when I'm not of producing product because I have to stop what I'm doing to answer the phone.

[Tim Powell]

UH There is one thing to learn here just as dealing with the guys in the Orient ask befor you get the service. Just think of it as a bordello always ask the price before.
HERE IN NC Gregory pool charges millage and ride time covington wares the same hat The volvo boys fit that mole also. The indivigals or the back yard boys who are just as good in some cases do not charge for millage or ride time. Most of them drive a van and carry some parts but put the regular charges on the bill as if they were at a shop sutch as rags disposal fees and sutch.
I belive the hourely rate is usually much less than the coperate boys in some cases. If the drive is less than 25 miles usually there is no millage charge. If you get broke down out of town you better have a good buddy in the business cause it gets expensive if you call him. Millage motel and charges 8 to 5 in other words limp home! Tim

[Walter P]

The real reason for these outrageous charges is because most people are willing to pay them. I think it's an outrage and the practice has spread simply because no one, or very few folks have the ba__s to protest for fear of not getting service in the future. Well I refuse to be held hostage to these pirates disguised as businessmen. There are many honest hard working service techs in all fields, but most folks are either too lazy or intimidated to leave the so called big guys. BS........ I owned several service companies over my almost 75 years on this planet and I would have been out of business in short order if I tried to pull that crap. The real answer is competition .... there needs to be more of it. The example given in an above post of charging $1,000 for a $5.00 turn of a screw by claiming that the knowledge is what is being paid for is obscene. If you claim to be a professional, you are expected to know what screw to turn.

Why you ask am i so fired up about this.... I have been screwed many times by so called professionals who had to learn their job on my dime. Many years ago they had an apprentice system which was designed to prepare the future professional technician to do his job in a reasonable amount of time, which was then billed in accordance with a "Flat Rate Book". The client was assured that the technician really knew his job and if he was not up to snuff, the rate for the specific job was listed and adhered to and the tech was brought to task by his superiors for taking too long. The customer was not the victim. I recently had a small job done on one of my cars by a so called professional auto repair facility. The car had an engine miss. The owner of the shop told me that their was a minimum diagnostic charge of $100 and may be much more because it could be caused by many things, but he said clearly that seldom does the diagnosis cost more than the $100.00. I agree...... Three days later I finally got a call that the car was ready and it needed a new coil for cylinder #3 and while he was at it he replaced the spark plugs.... Get ready for this........ My total bill was $1,200.00. $800.00 for diagnostics and the other $400.00 for parts and labor. I hope the thief rots in hell. I paid for it but I am taking an ad in a local newspaper warning the public about his practice. Hell, I know medical doctors who don't charge such outrageous rates. Conclusion...... get a firm price up front in writing... If the so called professional can't or won't give you that price, then he is either plain stupid and has no experience with the work you requested or has an ulterior motive and you should run like hell out of his shop and find an honest guy... There are many honest legitimate service providers out there, just don't be lazy or assume that they are all knowledgeable and honest. Just ask yourselves, would you walk into most service shops of any kind and hand them a signed blank check with instructions to just fill in the amount? It's the same thing.

Walt

[saltshaker]

A few months ago I brought my car to a "high end specialist" The car was running flawlessly then suddenly died. Started right up and then would die once you put it in gear. I was right near a gas station so I pulled in to see what was going on. Car would now stay running but the idle was hunting drastically. When I drove the car it was shaking violently like a transmission or very bad axle or bearing.
I had the car towed to the shop and they said the symptoms were gone but I had a bad fuel pump and a bad seal on the air flow meter. They claimed the vibration was from incorrect fuel delivery. $1000 later I got the car back. One month later the exact same thing happens. They claim it is unrelated and are 70% sure it's the transmission but won't now for sure until they replace it for almost $8000. This is a 6 year old car with just over 50K miles that up until now ran flawlessly. Meanwhile they moved the shop over 50 miles away from where they were. It was time for a new car anyway so I traded it in. Turned out the problem was fixed with a $250 software upgrade.

[captddis]

I guess I don't charge enough! 75.00 /hr and no local travel time. Outside of area I usually charge time one way.

I have very loyal customers and never advertise. I have 13 jobs on the list right now.
There are local mechanics who charge 100+/hr and tell me that I need to charge more. Guess what they have no work half of the time. I also live much better than they do.
My unproductive time is chasing parts and there is almost no discount anymore.

[Avenger]

........ I owned several service companies over my almost 75 years on this planet and I would have been out of business in short order if I tried to pull that crap. The real answer is competition .... there needs to be more of it. The example given in an above post of charging $1,000 for a $5.00 turn of a screw by claiming that the knowledge is what is being paid for is obscene. If you claim to be a professional, you are expected to know what screw to turn.

I think you need to reread my post. The charge was for time, plain and simple. The comment about the knowledge vs. the work was a joke. Obviously, if just anybody as smart as you could do it I wouldn't have to go out on the job in the first place.

I don't know what kind of service businesses you ran, but you must have had no overhead if you didn't charge for your time.

[Avenger]

I guess I don't charge enough! 75.00 /hr and no local travel time. Outside of area I usually charge time one way.

I have very loyal customers and never advertise. I have 13 jobs on the list right now.
There are local mechanics who charge 100+/hr and tell me that I need to charge more. Guess what they have no work half of the time. I also live much better than they do.
My unproductive time is chasing parts and there is almost no discount anymore.

You also have a lot less overhead than some of us. Besides that, the nature of what you do is mobile and the pricing structure reflects that. If you, for example, were running a shop that repaired trucks and had to travel to fix a boat you'd need to charge more for travel time too.

[krush]

A guy can charge 75/hr or 115/hr but the final number is usually going to be the same. Any competent worker is going to have a number in his head and if the customer is going to bitch about the hourly rate, he'll just up the hours. If the hours are bitched about, the rate changes. Of course being small allows for this flexibility.

I believe in VA that if a written estimate is given by a shop, the job has to come in within a certain %....unless the customer specifically agrees to the additional stuff.

The $800 diagnostic bill on the coil for the car IS robbery. A competent mechanic with knowledge should be able to nail that one down in less than 1 hour. Give a little bit of fluff if the part is hard to get to.

A plant I worked at hired an OEM "expert"...$10,000 min for mob/demob. Of course this was flying across the world to Guam. Then it was $400 an hour, 1000/day expenses and per diem, 1.5x over 8, 2x on Sunday...it took the 3rd guy to show up before he knew how to fix the problem (and knew more than me, the lowly plant worker).

Lots of people won't hire this expensive person because they know they can get just as good service from independents. But clueless customers are still wow'd by the OEM "we know our equipment best".

[Avenger]

It's illegal in NY for an auto repair shop to charge more than the written estimate without approval. It probably is in NJ too, and it's just plain bad business not to make a call and say it's going to cost more than we thought, should we continue? Surprises like that are the kind of thing that leads to court or a visit from the DMV.

[saltshaker]

A few very interesting points here. First, Dave, your rate is low for what you do and the quality of your work. I doubt your rate has anything to do with your loyal following. I for one would rather pay you $100 per hour than pay $50 per hour for some of the so called techs that I've dealt with in the past. I don't think the hourly rate someone charges is directly related to the quality of their work. I also have a lot of respect for those who are top notch but don't charge outrageous fees for their service, but I do expect to pay for their services.

Jay, as you pointed out in you comment about the OEM expert, The hourly rate may have no reflection on the final bill or the quality of the work. I'm sure Dave's final bill would be less than other lesser techs who charge a higher rate for the same work. The big difference often is comparing the scope of work done. Ask around how much it cost to major a pair of 8V92's in a given boat. The numbers will be all over the place. Then ask what that overhaul includes. I expect an overhaul to be complete and every part of the engine gone through. Some think that throwing in new kits is all that's needed. When I see an engine that was "just majored" and the engine needs paint, hoses and clamps are old etc., I walk away from the boat.

Walt and Derek, I agree with both of you but I think Walt misread Derek's post. If you spend time waiting for access to the job at the scheduled time, then you should be compensated. If I show up a day early and have to wait to do the work then that's my fault. If I'm scheduled to do a job and show up at the agreed upon time but can't start because they're not ready for me then the clock starts when I get there. The point about a mobile marine service tech not getting travel pay but a shop that sends techs out doesn't work for me. Those techs are employees of the shop and are paid much less than their billable rate. The travel cost is part of the cost of doing business. When I send a crew out on location, they are paid from the time they pick up the equipment until they return to the shop. The client pays for the time on location only. No extra trucking charges unless something out of the ordinary is required. I bill hourly but there is an 8 hour minimum per man. If someone wants a crew for a couple of hours I sometimes can do a half day but only for my best clients and only early in the day. For this type of work the rate is 5 hours or less including travel. This is why I feel travel charges should not be charged on full day or longer projects that are within a reasonable distance.

[Avenger]

I wasn't suggesting that the mobile tech shouldn't be compensated for travel time. The point was more about some of our posters seeming to think that a business with a commercial facility is overcharging because they're comparing their prices to someone who works out of their house and a van. I can see where my phrasing wasn't clear there.

[Walter P]

Dave, I agree with Jack that in your case you could certainly justify a higher rate. From reading your posts over the last few years, I get the feeling that you are definitely an honest and knowledgeable professional. Your business model obviously should be copied by your competition, as per your statement that you are backed up with work and enjoy a better life. Krush also made a few good points which I agree. ....... If you think you are a professional, please don't tell me about it. As the song in My Fair Lady goes, don't talk of love, show me. Krush I don't think you are just a shop worker. Everyone, perhaps I didn't explain myself adequately last night (it was late), but I don't mind paying a little more for efficient high quality, but I just wish some of the so called professional experts would stop playing games with numbers because they lack the guts to tell a client that they really don't know what the problem is perhaps they should go to someone who does.

By the way, regarding what my business was... After serving 6 years in the USN, I completed my education at Cook College (Rutgers University) in Entomology. Shortly thereafter I started a small pest control service business. Using my undergraduate training (I was a Marketing major) I got real lucky and the business grew very rapidly. At my 20th year in business, we had over 120 full time employees working out of 8 branches throughout the state and NYC. Many of my friends in the business said that I probably wasn't charging enough, but a cost analysis by our accounting firm showed otherwise. Our technicians were all brought in for half day training sessions several times a month (on our dime). We hired some of the PhD's from Cook college as teachers. The results were that our techs were probably the best trained in our field.

The same business philosophy that I had will work in any service business including working on boats. By the way please don't misinterpret my statements to mean that most folks charge too much by the hour or whatever, I don't mind paying a professional rate to an honest provider for an honest job. Remember that price alone means nothing, the final bottom line is what counts. An old expression still makes sense ....."Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten"

Walt

[captddis]

You also have a lot less overhead than some of us. Besides that, the nature of what you do is mobile and the pricing structure reflects that. If you, for example, were running a shop that repaired trucks and had to travel to fix a boat you'd need to charge more for travel time too.



Sorry if you took my post as a dig it was not my intention! Yes I do have a low overhead by design. I also have a shop but not a specialized business like you with very expensive tools.
A very savvy person told me that either stay small or get big. Do not try to have a business with three or four employees as your overhead will be much higher but you won't make anymore money.
I wanted to keep most of the money I make so I stayed small.

The missed point I was trying to make was that price was not an indicater of quality.
You prove it with your superior quality work and your reasonable prices. That is why people from FL send their parts to you in NY.

[Avenger]

This is getting way off where we started.

Dave, your comments weren't the ones I found offensive, and I thank you for your kind words. You have a smart business model with low overhead because the nature of what you do allows that, and that is reflected in your pricing. Unfortunately, the nature of other businesses is that they cannot operate that way, and their pricing reflects that as well.

Anyway, what this thread comes down to is that certain professions charge for travel time, some do not. The guy who's reshingling your house isn't going to charge for travel time for a number of reasons. Your mechanic having to make a trip to your boat is going to, also for a number of reasons. Either way, they are somehow going to recover their costs and make a profit on the customer's dime or they won't be in business for long. That's how it works.

Are there abuses? There's abuses in every profession. And BTW, "professional" only means that you get paid for it.

....So I wonder how many people say "Gee, the exterminator charged me $300 to spray the place and he was only here for an hour. That's $300 an hour. What a ripoff!" And never consider all that's involved in making that hour happen.

[sportfish 45]

Honestly there are some things I'll never understand. It seems like some of you guys hire a top shelf mechanic who charges $100 an hour solves the problem in 2 hours and your panties are all in a wad because the guy charges $100 an hour. Seems like you would be happier hiring the local numb nuts @ $50 an hour even though it took him 5 hours to solve the same problem. Then there's travel time how in the world would you expect a business to absorb travel time that's part of the job maybe you should just bring the engine to them. Oh I forgot carpet cleaners and lawn maintenance guys don't charge travel time next time hire them to re build your engine and let us know how that works out. There's a reason why there are hundreds of choices for carpet cleaners and lawn people and just a few for diesel mechanics knucklhead!!!

I bet you guys that get all bent out of shape paying a mechanic for travel time find it perfectly acceptable for an attorney to bill you $275 an hour to generate a piece of paper then charge you for a telephone conversation if you have a question. Get real if your lucky enough to find someone good then look at the job and what you actually got for your money instead of obsessing over how the costs break down.

[krush]

How dare somebody try to earn a living with their hands and brain! (sarcasm)

My old man always said "Do a good job and never under charge. If you do a good job and are expensive...all the person has to bitch about is the price. If you do a poor job for cheap--the price is the last thing they needa worry about."

[J's Dream]

I had a mechanic come to my boat to work on the engines and generator. The guy did a really good job and was very personable. When I got the bill though, I was not pleased. It seems he charged $85/hr to drive to and from my house, and also to eat lunch on my patio. in addition, he charged $2/mile to drive to/from my house twice, which came out to $300 bucks. Is this for real? I don't know of anyone who gets paid their mechanic rate to drive to provide a service, AND charge a stiff mileage fee. Am I behind the times on this?

Cheers

Sounds EXACTLY like my mechanic. You must be in East Central Florida. Did you ask for his rates? Do you know how many diesel mechanics are in the area? Lots. You hire the best (IMHO) and complain about the cost, after you say he "did a really good job"...

I just had my 892 rebuild by "suspect" mechanic, and paying that charge was worth every penny to me.

I'm tired of the "something-for-nothing" crowd. Sell your Hatteras, that's been sitting for years, and buy a derelict sailboat.

[nor'easter]

My DDs have 2 service plans. For the simple routine stuff I do it myself or have a reliable tech handle it if I don't have the time, which is almost always. For the medium to bigger stuff, I have a guy that comes in from out of town and is semi retired. He charges 100/hr and I pay for the travel unless he is already in town for another job. He know my mains like the back of his hand and is worth every penny. He doesn't need to apologize for his rates, and has a number of customers that he has this same relationship with. I hope he doesn't retire completely anytime soon.

[Boatnut]

I had a mechanic come to my boat to work on the engines and generator. The guy did a really good job and was very personable. When I got the bill though, I was not pleased. It seems he charged $85/hr to drive to and from my house, and also to eat lunch on my patio. in addition, he charged $2/mile to drive to/from my house twice, which came out to $300 bucks. Is this for real? I don't know of anyone who gets paid their mechanic rate to drive to provide a service, AND charge a stiff mileage fee. Am I behind the times on this?

Cheers

Not knowing what the mechanics terms are up front, shame on you.

Next time call the Detroit dealer and ask his rates, before complaining about the bill.

It's not cheap to put a service vehicle on the road. Fuel prices are outrageous, venicle repairs expensive, not to mention depreciation and insurance, and equiptment carried in the vehicle.

Do the math, the cost is in the price somewhere in the rates, be it travel charges or labor rates.

As you stated you were happy with everything but the bill. Where have us service people heard this before?

If you whined to him the way you are whinning here, you'll be lucky to get him back, good service people don't need this kind of crap.

To quote your comment in a previous post.

Quote mifkin: "This conversation is a pathetic circle jerk".

[Glory]

I worked for a major diesel engine dealer. The hourly charge is for the mechanic. If he was not driving to a job he would be pulling wrenches in the shop, thus making revenue. The mileage is for the vehicle expenses,purchase, fuel, maintenance and insurance. There is no money made for the company in the mileage charge.
Bob

I agree.

JM

[Glory]

This is a sore subject for me as well. I used to own a carpet cleaning service. I couldnt charge people mileage, they would laugh me out their house. I had a big heavy van W/ alot of equipment. Gas prices ate me up. Carpet cleaners, lawn maint, carpenters, roofers, bug sprayers all do not charge extra. I cant figure why a diesel mech with a small bag of tools think they can charge for the trip. The only reason is because people are willing to pay up. Same goes with tipping. The above meantioned dont get tipped. I got very few tips, and thats doing extra work for the customer (like a door mat) for free. But a hair beautitian, you need to tip. She didnt even do anything extra. I guy thats a dock hand, ties your boat up and we tip him. Well, heck thats his job. The Marina pays him well. But, if he helps you pump out, flush your waste tank, helps you hook up cable, electric, water, thats going above and beyond. He deserves a tip. I'll get off my soap box now. Oh yeah, another thing. The diesel Mech I have now came 25 miles one way and didnt charge me anything extra. He is a very popular Mech and stays booked up with work.

"a small bag of tools"

I think you would have a hard time finding a quality mechanic arrive to repair an engine with "a small bag of tools" .

JM

[Boatsb]

Doing a major electrical upgrade with transformer inverter and an autoswitch took 2 vehicles to haul all the stuff in. One pickup could not hold all the gear, materials and tools. Half a truck was plywood and cardboard to protect the boat. I bet the garbage would fill a small pick up alone. Someone has to pay to bring all the stuff there and back. It adds up quickly.

[saltshaker]

Doing a major electrical upgrade with transformer inverter and an autoswitch took 2 vehicles to haul all the stuff in. One pickup could not hold all the gear, materials and tools. Half a truck was plywood and cardboard to protect the boat. I bet the garbage would fill a small pick up alone. Someone has to pay to bring all the stuff there and back. It adds up quickly.
I think that's a bit more than travel, and the boat owner should expect to pay for it. Like most threads here, this one is going on too long. If you have a mechanic your happy with stick with him and pay the bill. If the work or the bill is unacceptable then look elsewhere. I have a few techs that I trust to work on my boat. First priority is that the work is done to my satisfaction. The bill is never an issue since I wouldn't have someone do work for me that I didn't trust or respect. In the past I've found that when there was an issue with the bill, there were other more serious concerns to go with it.

[Avenger]

This is a sore subject for me as well. I used to own a carpet cleaning service. I couldnt charge people mileage, they would laugh me out their house. I had a big heavy van W/ alot of equipment. Gas prices ate me up. Carpet cleaners, lawn maint, carpenters, roofers, bug sprayers all do not charge extra. I cant figure why a diesel mech with a small bag of tools think they can charge for the trip. The only reason is because people are willing to pay up. Same goes with tipping. The above meantioned dont get tipped. I got very few tips, and thats doing extra work for the customer (like a door mat) for free. But a hair beautitian, you need to tip. She didnt even do anything extra. I guy thats a dock hand, ties your boat up and we tip him. Well, heck thats his job. The Marina pays him well. But, if he helps you pump out, flush your waste tank, helps you hook up cable, electric, water, thats going above and beyond. He deserves a tip. I'll get off my soap box now. Oh yeah, another thing. The diesel Mech I have now came 25 miles one way and didnt charge me anything extra. He is a very popular Mech and stays booked up with work.

Since Glory brought this point back up I'm curious how many years it took you to learn the carpet cleaning business and how much those tools cost? While we're at it how much overhead did your commercial building incur and where does your popular mechanic work from?

Tipping is another scam for another thread. :rolleyes:

[Boatnut]

Who is kidding who here? There is no way you can stay in business and provide free travel. The cost is covered somehwere in the bill. Naturally carpet cleaners, pest control, lawn maintenance people don't charge travel rates. Most of these businesses go to an area and do several customers in that area.

Many threads have been generated on this forum concerning the cost of fuel, and how to run an engine in a range where it is not designed to run, yet a service guy should provide free fuel to service those engines. You shop around for free advice, the cheapest mechanic you can find then complain about poor service. A good mechanic shows up charges you a fair rate, does a good job, and you're still unhappy.

I have been in the service business for close to 50 years, and we have a well deserved name for such customers.

Go buy a blow boat you'll fit right in.

[J's Dream]

This is "suspected" mechanics truck. Was at my house today so I snapped a picture.

It's an F550, a transportable workshop with a 10,000lb crane, gas powered air compressor, welding tanks, and everything needed except your broken engine. $2 per mile is a GREAT deal.

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/scccox/PNCtruck.jpg

[rmatt]

Long thread. A good portion realize the mileage and travel time is justified. Just a word about a mechanic that should anticipate what parts to bring as he is a professional. Most mechanics will bring whatever the think will rectify the problem. That information to determine what parts to bring is directly related to the owner or owners representative discription of the symptons. A good portion of the time it is faulty information or not the whole story. It's like if all the info is not given it will cost less. Just the opposite. With my thirty years of service relations, you would be amazed at just how often that happens.
Bob

[magnawake]

Since Glory brought this point back up I'm curious how many years it took you to learn the carpet cleaning business and how much those tools cost? While we're at it how much overhead did your commercial building incur and where does your popular mechanic work from?

Tipping is another scam for another thread. :rolleyes:

Are you trying to compare the cost of maintaining a van or truck or cost to keep a vehicle on the road? Sounds like you are saying carpet cleaners dont deserve to be paid a trip charge. Some carpet companies have 20 vans running and 40 people on staff. I went to school for cleaning so I wouldnt damage and have to replace a home owners carpet. If you buy a new machine a van with all the needed tools, prolly 40 grand will get ya there. On the other hand a guy could go to food lionand rent a rug doctor and go out and start cleaning. I serviced the greater Columbia, SC area which would burn sometimes a hour fighting traffic to go across town (Atlanta is worse). Keeping my van on the road, many miles/day was very frustrating. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to clean carpet, just someone who has high standards and cares about doing a good job. Overhead? I had to have 1 Million Liability insurance to clean a mall store. Some Apt complexes want you to pay workmans comp just to clean their carpets. I could go on, but I dont really think you care. I think you are just trying to make you own point. Rolling my eyes too.

[sandspur1966]

I for one am growing very tired of the emotional resentment here.

Mikfin asked a simple question about whether it was appropriate that he get charged travel time AND mileage (I for one think either or is appropriate not both.) That simple question engendered 5 pages of mostly personal hyperbole.

I asked a question about costs for a specific job a while back that was met with much of the same criticism by the technicians who use this site. The worst comment was the accusation that I should be put on a list of bad owners who should be shunned by mechanics because I had the audacity to question the number of hours I was charged.

I submit that there are probably an equal number of technicians who overcharge as there are owners who have unreasonable expectations out there. What I dislike about these comment threads is the nastiness and personal attacks. I think the moderators should delete posts by people who let their emotions bleed on to this site, be they vendors or boat owners.

Just my opinion again but I think a general rule should be opinions about boats or the companies that supply or service them are welcome and opinions about individuals should be saved for your bartender or shrink, depending on which you use.

I am more the bartender type :)

[Avenger]

Are you trying to compare the cost of maintaining a van or truck or cost to keep a vehicle on the road? Sounds like you are saying carpet cleaners dont deserve to be paid a trip charge. Some carpet companies have 20 vans running and 40 people on staff. I went to school for cleaning so I wouldnt damage and have to replace a home owners carpet. If you buy a new machine a van with all the needed tools, prolly 40 grand will get ya there. On the other hand a guy could go to food lionand rent a rug doctor and go out and start cleaning. I serviced the greater Columbia, SC area which would burn sometimes a hour fighting traffic to go across town (Atlanta is worse). Keeping my van on the road, many miles/day was very frustrating. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to clean carpet, just someone who has high standards and cares about doing a good job. Overhead? I had to have 1 Million Liability insurance to clean a mall store. Some Apt complexes want you to pay workmans comp just to clean their carpets. I could go on, but I dont really think you care. I think you are just trying to make you own point. Rolling my eyes too.

AH HA!!! Seems everybody gets their knickers in a bunch when somebody questions the value of what they do!

That's why we're getting so many heated arguments here. Yes, I asked the question as kind of a trap, sorry. It wasn't meant as a shot at you personally.

The more I thought about this the more it seems to come down to the difference between charging by the hour or charging by the job. Anybody who runs a business knows that the costs have to be covered either way. I just find it very interesting that some of the ones who are in a business that charges by the job seem to think they're getting scammed by the ones that charge by the hour.

So now I'm curious how everybody would feel if instead of a "mileage charge" it was a "fuel surcharge"?

[Angela]

I'm one who usually does it herself, but this week I've had a very positive experience with a marine worker, not a DD mechanic, but the guy who does all that nasty, uncomfortable work - yard stuff.

I always monitor the work, writing down the date/time each person showed up and left because I've been overbilled pretty much every time. I've had some work going on here for the whole week, and it just got finished. I did keep track of time, and at the end of the week, he charged me only what he estimated the work to be, despite the fact that he spent more time than he thought he would, and even threw in a couple of things that popped up during the demolition. He didn't charge me travel and there were always two of them who showed up together, but he didn't bill me double man hours. They worked diligently when here and went to great lengths to keep everything clean. When grinding glass in the genny room, they sectioned it off into "rooms" by plastic to keep the dust from spreading pretty much anywhere. When they were working with resin and glass, they changed clothes completely down in the hole and again before coming back out. There wasn't so much as a strand of glass or a smudge left anywhere.

He said he would replace my genny's exhaust thru-hull for no extra charge - it was leaky at the hullside and left mountains of salt crystals. Turns out it wasn't as easy as he thought. He had to cut it out. Whoever installed that genny put a 2" hose on a 1.5" thru-hull/barb - no wonder it leaked saltwater everywhere. That was a disaster waiting to happen. He even had to bring a hole saw back to cut the hole in the hull bigger in order to put the right fixture in there. At the end of the day/week, I told him that that thru-hull was too much work to be "no charge." Still, he insisted, so I gave him an extra couple hundred dollars anyway. Money well spent.

My experience this week is probably not the norm, and this guy WILL be working on our boat again. Ed and I have been greatly impressed with this man and his son. He does a little of everything - he aligned my engines recently. He does the heavy lifting and is often subcontracted by local yards to some of that really cruddy work.

Rarely do we get to sing the praises of marine people in Miami, but when we find one this good....and it's not about the "no charge" thing he threw in - it's everything to do with how the work got done, the diligence, the quality, and the outcome. I never grumbled for a moment when writing that check. What I got done was well worth it.

Now, I have to go outside for a while....Bilgekote fumes have given me a nasty headache, but at last, I have a bright white spot on the boat that is below the water line. It will be a mental pleasure working in my new genny room. New battery charger arrives in 2-3 weeks and two more vacuflush heads arrive next week. All of that is going in my pretty new genny room.

I'm happy; no, I'm thrilled! with the job done here this week.

Oh...just for giggles....we we started removing the thru-hull which was at the water line, it was too close to the waterline and water started seeping in. I put two kiddie pools on the port side of the boat, one on the bow and one on the flybridge, filled them with water, and she leaned over quite nicely exposing her exhaust port (on the starboard side) well above the water line. The alternative was a haul out. Now, kiddie pools are a part of our giant tool box. :) I hear a freshwater pool calling my name. Ciao~

[shark 1007]

You , sir are famous already. I just heard the story at the marina that you had a boat sitting for two years unstarted and a generator that hadn't been started in ten years.You hired the DD repairman and he did your job and even fixed the generator, having the pump rebuilt at his cost, no markup to you. You complained about the mileage and they told you to forget the mileage fee. Why didn't you mention that in your post? I heard that you were calling a generator service outfit and this mechanic saved you the expense and fixed the issue even though your stuff was so corroded that parts fell off, shocking the crap out of the mechanic while he was doing you a favor.

I know this mechanic and have for 25 years, he has he best reputation I've ever heard. I'd trust him under any circumstance. I even flew him to the islands once and he patched a set of detroits so I could limp home.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps that could have been avoided by a clear discussion at the beginning, you indicated the guy was personable and did a great job. Mechanics are being eaten alive by fuel costs like us all.

Don't buy a sailbote and if you ever call another local mechanic and he hasn't heard this story, then you'll realize what a fair shake you were given.

[Boatsb]

I think you owe the mechanic an apology and should probably remember that the next time you need something. There are only so many good Detroit people in an area and it sounds like you already alienated one of them. Could you be related to oh forget it it's not worth the energy it takes to type it.

[Avenger]

Well,...... isn't that an interesting turn..... hmmmm.

[RT46]

the relationship between an owner (or manager) and mechanic or shop is just that....A Relationshp

The Relationship is built upon communication, trust, confidence and competence.

The owner needs to trust the technician that he is not going to drop some surprise charges for a box of rags or 5 cans of WD40, cable ties, and other expendable items on a work order.

When an owner sees somethig like a box of rags or cans of WD on a work order on a bill, the owner tends to loose trust in the entire bill and the integrity of the bill writer, especially if the owner was watching the technican use a single rag and spray one or two sprtiz of WD when doing the job.

This is what I think, most owners are more than happy to pay a bill, and sometimes a premium bill, for a mechanic that is trustworthy and can to the job to the owner's standards.

Owners and mechanics need to communicate before and after the estimate and work is complete.

I have a mechanic that I trust and communicate with. He is an independent contarctor.
I get a very fair bill that is always on or close to the esitmate, and he usually gets a few extra greenbacks for the job just for doing the right thing.

The last time he came to the boat he adjusted the rack, replaced the airbox gaskets and replaced the front seal on one of the mains..... I think the bill was $400 or something like that.....

A good reliable, trustworthy DD mechanic is worth his weight in gold.

[Boatsb]

So is it wrong to be charged for the little supplies? A can of WD 40 or a few connectors add up fast. Don't forget the assembly lubes and sealants. I just got some shrink connectors in that we use regularly. I use nothing without shrink on marine electrical and electronics. The order was to refill the kits and was almost $500.00. consider the cost of a connector to start at $.50 and some are quite a bit more. How should I charge for them? Do I count them and look them all up or add in a supplies charge? Billing time would be billable if a mechanic needs to spend an hour doing that.

By the way in large projects we have had over $4k in wire, installation supplies and connectors. If I added the supplies on your bill would you flip out? It's easy to see the problem.

[krush]

Most times ignorance is bliss....thus itemized bills can be bad!

[saltshaker]

I recently received an estimate an eventually a bill from a mechanic I've never used before. Since I'm in NJ and the boat is in NC, our only interaction was over the phone and email. He told me how he planned on doing the job and what he thought it would entail. His approach was exactly what I would have done if I were doing it myself. Since I already did the exact same job on my previous boat, I knew what it would take to do it right. The estimate was reasonable and I figured another 20-25% on labor for the unexpected issues that can pop up when working on an older boat. I received a bill that was a few bucks under the estimate. I was billed for wire, connectors, cable ties and other misc. supplies. I was more than happy to pay the bill and would have done so even if it was just an amount due on a piece of paper with no breakdown. My point is I was satisfied with the job and the total bill. How he arrived at it isn't that important since I knew what to expect and received what was promised. My mechanic here in NJ isn't much for formal estimates or itemized bills. He tells me how much and keeps me informed on how things are progressing. In the end I pay him in full and never had to question his bill. When he did my rebuild, I was the one who kept asking if he needed some cash along the way. Same was true when I had work done in Fl. If they told me they needed 3K for parts, I gave them 4K. In the end they're going to get it anyway. When the job is done I'm the one who ask for the bill or a final amount ASAP so I can get them their money. This way everyone is happy and no one is surprised. When I call with a problem, I know both me and my boat will be well taken care of.

[sportfish 45]

The simple truth is we all have lots of choices with car repair, computer repair, home maintenance etc. There aren't to many choices for good diesel mechanics. If your lucky enough to find a good one especially a good independant then be a good customer it's in your best interest.

[mikfin]

Thanks for the polite and thoughtful replies. As a footnote, the mileage charge ended up being waived, as it was never discussed. The mechanic charges for driving to/from and eating lunch were never an issue, I was happy to pay them.

Cheers

[Danvilletim]

What certifications can be asked for? What kind of liability insurance should they have?

[Glory]

I would be more concerned with experince and refrances. There are many people who have documents that say they passed the test and in the end not so good. For example Captain Smith of the RMS Titanic.

In life you need to stay focused, at the helm or stuffing piston kits into an engine

JM

[saltshaker]

I'm currently having work done on one of my engines. I have to pay $122 per hour and $2.75 per mile for travel. Boat was 52 miles away from the shop. Estimate for travel expenses were $3200. I had the boat moved on one engine to spped things up and cut the cost a bit. I get the charge for the techs time, but $2.75 a mile for a van, not a fully stocked service truck, is a bit steep.