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kroogs
01-05-2012, 10:22 AM
My newly acquired 1968 38c hatt has bin on the hard for 9 years,the twin 150 gal fiberglass tanks have bin pumped out,the copper fule lines look and feel ok,filters have bin replaced,tanks have never had ethanol gas in them.I have heard many scary stories,one of them is some tanks have problems some do not.Should i take a chance fill up and keep an eye on the filters and hope for the best or look in to fule blatters or just bight the bullet and cut the deck up and replace both tanks with new tanks of what type meterial?

34Hatt
01-05-2012, 10:27 AM
My newly acquired 1968 38c hatt has bin on the hard for 9 years,the twin 150 gal fiberglass tanks have bin pumped out,the copper fule lines look and feel ok,filters have bin replaced,tanks have never had ethanol gas in them.I have heard many scary stories,one of them is some tanks have problems some do not.Should i take a chance fill up and keep an eye on the filters and hope for the best or look in to fule blatters or just bight the bullet and cut the deck up and replace both tanks with new tanks of what type meterial?

Bladders are not a option this has been beat to death only real fix is cut up the deck hope its not wet so that it can reused. Replace tanks with aluminum.

good luck

Boatsb
01-05-2012, 10:33 AM
As Dan stated bladders are not a good option.

1968 was not even close to the ethanol resistant resin plus they keep trying to increase the ethanol % so new tanks are needed.

While your in there re plumb the fuel system. Replace the mufflers and exhaust hoses and anything else that will be hard to get to.

kroogs
01-05-2012, 11:00 AM
Bladders are not a option this has been beat to death only real fix is cut up the deck hope its not wet so that it can reused. Replace tanks with aluminum.

good luck

Thanks for the input,you did a really nice job on your refit,i plan to build an enclosure around my boat as you did .

kroogs
01-05-2012, 11:15 AM
As Dan stated bladders are not a good option.

1968 was not even close to the ethanol resistant resin plus they keep trying to increase the ethanol % so new tanks are needed.

While your in there re plumb the fuel system. Replace the mufflers and exhaust hoses and anything else that will be hard to get to.

Thanks,makes sence the marina i am at has non ethanol gas in new york shure wish we had that option in jersey

rsmith
01-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Wonder how long it would take the eythanol to break down the tanks? If he just runs it as is to get it home.

hibanx
01-05-2012, 12:00 PM
Are you saying you can't get ethanol free gas? I thought most marinas sold it?? If you can get it ethanol free why go to the expense of replacing the tanks? Even if you have to go a few miles out of your way to find it, that still seems like a better option than cutting out and replacing the tanks. You can always do that later if ethanol free gas becomes completely unavailable. Any chance you may repower with diesels? If so, the FG tanks are fine. Just my $.02.

Boatsb
01-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Wonder how long it would take the eythanol to break down the tanks? If he just runs it as is to get it home.

A day or two could be all it needs. I lost an engine in a car and later found out the fuel marked 10% was measured at 30% and causing lots of trouble. The stations do not have control of wwaht gets delivered. The wholesalers may do it on purpose or it could be an honest mistake but either way you will not get them to cover the repairs.

67hat34c
01-05-2012, 03:22 PM
first thing to disolve will be the varnish left by the gasoline, it may clog filters and carburators but will not hurt valves. Would think it would take more time to disolve the Polyester resins to the point of coating valves and making them stick etc.

The tanks are likely 115 gallon each and not 150 unless factory changes size in 1968. Copper fuel lines will have to go.

34Hatt
01-05-2012, 04:02 PM
first thing to disolve will be the varnish left by the gasoline, it may clog filters and carburators but will not hurt valves. Would think it would take more time to disolve the Polyester resins to the point of coating valves and making them stick etc.

The tanks are likely 115 gallon each and not 150 unless factory changes size in 1968. Copper fuel lines will have to go.


I agree it will take some time for the resin to break down but you will be having a nightmare wit all the old crap coming lose just like Steve said.

Kroog I remember reading this boat is far from home for you correct?
I am starting to think shipping may be a good option if so.
This is a 38C so taking up the deck and replacing everything is no small undertaking.
I did not have to do mine but I did do another 34C for a friend.

Boatsb
01-05-2012, 04:55 PM
If you get a batch of high ethanol fuel it could cause problems in days. remember once it starts to dissolve the glass the resins will leech into the fuel and even if you dilute it more it may be too late.

Passages
01-05-2012, 06:33 PM
. Copper fuel lines will have to go.


Why? Copper and alcohol incompatible?

rsmith
01-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Why? Copper and alcohol incompatible?

10,000 moonshiners cant be wrong.

Boatsb
01-05-2012, 06:42 PM
10,000 moonshiners cant be wrong.

Gotta love them moonshiners.

Copper is not the issue. The rubber parts are the problem ones.


Valve seals and rubber hoses in particular.

34Hatt
01-06-2012, 08:22 AM
If you get a batch of high ethanol fuel it could cause problems in days. remember once it starts to dissolve the glass the resins will leech into the fuel and even if you dilute it more it may be too late.

Scott Have to say no to that one since it was up here for almost a year before any tanks screwed up and I know some of the first ones to go. They started having problems and nobody even knew about the E-10 problem at that point. And when we did find out it was the E10 I had some of those Expurts here telling me No way was that and said we should do some Scientific study bla bla bla!

Some of the tanks actually went years before they screwed up and yes the owners were told and they just smiled and said but mine are fine! Eventually that smile disappeared :) It was amazing how many of those guys there were!

But would I chance it No way in one case to get Magic Hatt home from out east a single plastic tank was strapped down in the cockpit and run slow to get her to the yard she winters in. Then the deck was cut open and the Fun began.


One other way he can do it is But it will cost $$$$
Aviation gas but then there is the problem of where to get it would have to set up spots along the route and have it delivered PITA

Boatsb
01-06-2012, 09:00 AM
Dan E-10 may not do engine damage right away but we were getting e-30 here for a while. It will start faster and cause the damage plus it will not end until the fuel is removed and dilution is only making it less of a problem. I agree the valves will not be coated with resins in a few days but I believe based on the chemistry involved that the start of the damage takes only a few days. Once it starts the amount of damage done is dependent on the actual ethanol content, temperature, condition of the tanks and the resins used.

34Hatt
01-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Dan E-10 may not do engine damage right away but we were getting e-30 here for a while. It will start faster and cause the damage plus it will not end until the fuel is removed and dilution is only making it less of a problem. I agree the valves will not be coated with resins in a few days but I believe based on the chemistry involved that the start of the damage takes only a few days. Once it starts the amount of damage done is dependent on the actual ethanol content, temperature, condition of the tanks and the resins used.

E-30 never seen that around here Thank God for that.
So yes E-30 will break it down faster but not as fast as E-85 but those are two different things.

Keep the apples in the apple basket.
And get some E-30 for your lawn mower :)

Boatsb
01-06-2012, 10:22 AM
E-30 never seen that around here Thank God for that.
So yes E-30 will break it down faster but not as fast as E-85 but those are two different things.

Keep the apples in the apple basket.
And get some E-30 for your lawn mower :)


E-30 was not supposed to be here either. After many complaints the state did some spot testing and found the E-10 to be varying by station from less than 10% to over 30. My old infinity committed suicide on that stuff and the motorcycle has had all kinds of issues. Once the surface is softened it does not harden back up. Therefore a short time of exposure will cause the breakdown.

67hat34c
01-06-2012, 12:48 PM
Missed the fact that it is a 38 and not 34 so tanks are likely 150

kroogs
01-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Missed the fact that it is a 38 and not 34 so tanks are likely 150

Thanks again for all your input , i think i will clean out the tanks as best as i can through the sending unit plate pull some fresh gas through tank and old lines,change the lines out and add filters with sites,by extra filters, fill both tanks with non eth. fule.Its time for a shake down cruise(run the piss out it) if all is well try to estamate fule consumption and locate a marina aprox. half way through the trip to make it home.If the test run is not 1oo% i will have the boat transported at least i will have 300 gal. to do some local trips at home and make tank replacment next winters project.There is enough work and expense this year! kroogs

Boatsb
01-07-2012, 12:09 PM
Filters with sights? I hope you don't mean glass bowls. They are not foe use with gasoline. They are dangerous. Only metal filters for gas.

kroogs
01-08-2012, 08:51 AM
Filters with sights? I hope you don't mean glass bowls. They are not foe use with gasoline. They are dangerous. Only metal filters for gas.

I stand corrected,i did not do the research on that type of filter for gas,i must be thinking of an old commercial engine i had for my painting business or one of my first boats an old Henry lures skiff with a 109 gray marine 6 cyl. with a down draft carb. thanks for clearing that up kroogs

GJH
01-08-2012, 11:25 AM
There appear to be fuel docks spread around the NJ coast that sell ethanol free gas. You might browse around this site:

http://marinefuel.com/e-marina/new_jersey/avalon/avalon-marine-center/

kroogs
01-10-2012, 10:02 AM
There appear to be fuel docks spread around the NJ coast that sell ethanol free gas. You might browse around this site:

http://marinefuel.com/e-marina/new_jersey/avalon/avalon-marine-center/

Hi George,thanks for the information i started some research and found the site pure-gas.org that provided me with a list of 43 ethanol-free stations in ny along with gps #s this will help in planning my trip south.I did not know non ethanol gas was as available as it is in many states,just not in central or north coastal new jersey. kroogs

34Hatt
01-10-2012, 04:14 PM
I did not know non ethanol gas was as available as it is in many states,just not in central or north coastal new jersey. kroogs

And not in 99% of N.Y that website with places in N.Y they are all in the upper N.W of N.Y
closer to Canada then to you. Don't see how it is going to help you. Plus a lot of them are not on the water anyway. I did the Hudson from N.J up to Catskill this summer and did not see any NON E-10 anywhere.