46c vs Series II 45c

[hutch]

Hello all, looking to buy a good 46c or 45c series II for crusing and fishing on the Chesapeake. Would you know the key differences in the two models and recommended reliable engines please. (i dont need a lot of speed, 18kt - 20kt cruise works for me)

Thanks,
Hutch

[George]

For the interior arrangements, there are the original brochures on this site that provide pictures and layouts for you to determine whats best for you and your family. As far as engines are concerned, obviously unless the boat has been repowered, they are old and likely have varying histories on use and maintenance. the 8-71s in the 46 are reputed to be very reliable, where the 6-92's in the 45, are like bombs, which is why I repowered to the Cat C-12s. Both boats have similiar rides, but when drifting, the 45 has the hull chines and a deeper v for stability. Both boats should be running around 20 kts and I would suggest that if you do run them at that speed, you are on the higher level of load on the power units and you should know that. I have a 1985 45' and I have re-done the entire boat, except for the AC which is still hanging in there. Check the decks for soft spots as these boats are old and can fill up with water. See my post on boats for sale for more of the story of a 45
good luck

[rsmith]

Tim Powell is a member who has a nice 45 for sale in NC. He is a good guy and straight shooter.


http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/member.php?u=8361

[st.tully]

I have seen Tim's boat and she is a beauty.

[Bob Bradley]

I certainly would not write off a 45 with 6v92 engines, unless there are obvious problems, or the HP has been cranked up. As long as the HP is below 500 (and there are a lot of 435hp 6v92ta engines out there) they should be quite dependable. Rule of thumb on HP is that it should not exceed 90% of CID. CID for 6v92 is 552 (6 * 92 = 552). 90% of that is 497, so HP under 497 should give you decent longevity.

I have a '79 43C (virtually same boat as 45 but with 2' less cockpit) with a pair that I bought with unusually low hours - about 850 - 8 seasons ago. Since then, I've put another 1200 or so hours on them with zero serious problems beyond water pump and other minor issues. I may now be looking at an injector issue on one, but that can happen on any engine. I run them 80 miles offshore on a somewhat regular basis with complete confidence.

[saltshaker]

Both boats are excellent choices. I am a bit biased and would go with a 46C over the 45C. The 46C has a much bigger ER, slightly better accommodations and a ride that's hard to beat. I would look for a 46HP with low hour 8V92's. Most will have 650HP 8V92's which will give good service life and much better performance than the 8V71TI 46C or a 550HP 6V92 45C. If I were looking at 45C's I would look for a newer one with low hour 550HP 6V92's, mainly for the wet turbos. If 18kt cruise is fine then the 8V71TI 46C would give the best service life. Of course this would all depend on the condition and maintenance of each particular boat. The condition of these older boats will vary greatly from one to another. The prices on these boats are so depressed right now and offer a lot of boat for the money. Forget about the asking prices, most are WAY overpriced and won't sell for half of what they're asking for. As others have said I would look at Tim's 45C. From all accounts this is an exceptional boat that has seen constant quality maintenance and upgrades. She is also priced less than most of the others. I would also put this on high on my list.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2245830&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=13104&url=
She was repowered with low HP versions series 60 Detroits. At that HP rating they should run 10,000+ hours before needing any work. Even then you probably only need to do the top end.

[jim rosenthal]

They are both great boats, my choice would be a Series II 45c. Enjoy looking, it's a buyers market. Ideal repower for either would be Cummins M11s, but there is nothing wrong with Series 60 Detroits either. I don't know how much room there is around them, though- there are no ER photos in that listing.

[saltshaker]

They are both great boats, my choice would be a Series II 45c. Enjoy looking, it's a buyers market. Ideal repower for either would be Cummins M11s, but there is nothing wrong with Series 60 Detroits either. I don't know how much room there is around them, though- there are no ER photos in that listing.
The series 60's aren't very wide. I think the issue is they are long and tall. I think Tom Slane did the drawings for the install, he could shed more light on it if someone was interested. I know there's one out there with 3406 Cats. That would be a very tight ER.

[Tim Powell]

Hi you all this is TIM. If you guys can put up with my spelling I am going to give you my biased openion of the 45 and the 46. I have owned a 45c for about 4 years. I absoute love the thang it is my baby i have been in every nook and cranny.I paid a 125,000 for it and have totally redone it without replacing the engines. I have spent another 160000 on the inside and outside new every thing. I have redone the engines replacing every thing but the crank. I did not replace engines because of the ride and weight diffrence. I rode in hataboy probley one of the best redone jobs i have seen with the QSM11. Yes it was fast 26 knot cruse easy and efficent but it lost a lot of its seaworthiness in a bad sea the boat had to slow to a 17 to 18 knots mine would creap on by it. I do not know the weight diffrence exactely but from what i found out removing the old detroits and replacing with cummins the weight diffrence was around 3000 pounds lighter including gear. [ certainly replacing with 3000 pounds lighter engins and about 100 more hp the thing gotta go] but you just through out the window that millions of dollars or R&D Hatters did that made the boats what they are.....
The 46s are just one foot longer and one more hookey house and burn more fuel.The 8 that were put in them still push the boat at about 18 to max of 20 knots crusing including the hp verson {high performance} yes you can open it up and with the tide make some more numbers but all in all the 45 will out perorm it in every espect. Except two people can not crap at the same time. I have not rode or seen a 46 with the QSM11 so can not speak to the out come.
IN MY OPENON DO YOU WANT SPEED OR RIDE. If you can live with 18 to 19 knots honest and get back to the dock in the rear of the pack,leave the fuel dock with your credit card in tack get yourself a 45 keep it origional and enjoy.TIM

[tomrealest]

I bought a ragged out 46 with 8v71TIs. Redone everything. Have had the boat is Florida and on the Chesapeake Bay last three years.

I have no qualms about anything I have read here on this post. I am surprised at how much the 46 rolls. It's a heavy boat but I liked it. I like having a private head in the MSR. Personal preference. 18 to 20 knots are honest numbers. Anything over that is a gift or bs, probably bs.

[Tim Powell]

But i gotta tell you the 52c is hell of a boat. You can stick her nose in about any sea. You might get wet but it wont slap and your drank will stay in the holder. I rode one out the hatteras inlet i could not belive it some of the 60 carolina boats turned around. After going through the inlet it just kept on going just like a everready battery. That is where the millions of dollars of R&D came in to effect and of course Hargrave didnt hurt eather. The backyard boys aint what they pretend, They may look good at the dock but in a bad sea they do not look so good. Yes they will run flat tailed and no keel. Tim

[jim rosenthal]

As I said, they are both nice boats. I like to go fast, when conditions permit it. The Series II boats really are fast with modern engines- it isn't just the weight that was taken out, although that is some of it- the hull form of the later boat favors more speed, or so I am told. Different shape, and a double chine, I think, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

M11s weight about 2500 each with gears. 6-92s are much heavier. The difference in weight would be more like two tons or more. Slane recently repowered a 53 convertible with 700 hp M11s in place of 12v71TIs and that boat hit nearly thirty knots on her sea trials, and will do it when she's propped a bit steeper. Plus you get a walk-around engine room. Nice.

[MikeP]

"That is where the millions of dollars of R&D came in to effect and of course Hargrave didnt hurt eather."

Interestingly, if you read the history of Hatteras, specifically how Jack H determined the necessary fiberglass hull thickness, you would find that the "millions of dollars of R&D" was more like 29 cents for a gallon of gas.

He decided that the hull thickness was good enough if he could lay a section of it across some planks and then drive his car over it. If it broke, it was too thin. If it didn't, it was OK. :)

This info is contained in "American Classic - The Yachts and Ships of Jack Hargrave" Great book!

[saltshaker]

As I said, they are both nice boats. I like to go fast, when conditions permit it. The Series II boats really are fast with modern engines- it isn't just the weight that was taken out, although that is some of it- the hull form of the later boat favors more speed, or so I am told. Different shape, and a double chine, I think, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

M11s weight about 2500 each with gears. 6-92s are much heavier. The difference in weight would be more like two tons or more. Slane recently repowered a 53 convertible with 700 hp M11s in place of 12v71TIs and that boat hit nearly thirty knots on her sea trials, and will do it when she's propped a bit steeper. Plus you get a walk-around engine room. Nice.

You mean like this

http://i51.tinypic.com/v3mv7b.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2dha9mh.jpg

[rsmith]

As I said, they are both nice boats. I like to go fast, when conditions permit it. The Series II boats really are fast with modern engines- it isn't just the weight that was taken out, although that is some of it- the hull form of the later boat favors more speed, or so I am told. Different shape, and a double chine, I think, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

M11s weight about 2500 each with gears. 6-92s are much heavier. The difference in weight would be more like two tons or more. Slane recently repowered a 53 convertible with 700 hp M11s in place of 12v71TIs and that boat hit nearly thirty knots on her sea trials, and will do it when she's propped a bit steeper. Plus you get a walk-around engine room. Nice.


Unless your a midget or they take out the center tank you'l never be able to walk around in a 53 ER no matter what the power is.

[worldsaway]

The later model Series II 45c does have two heads. There is a private one in the master stateroom that has a seperate shower stall and the guest head in the main companionway. (that one has a shower but not a seperate stall for it). Mine is an 89 and is set up that way. The master has a walkaround style bed in it as well. It has been a great boat for us and has done just fine with the 692s. Mine are the single turbo set up.

Don't think you can go wrong with either model.

[solanderi]

Just for grins,

Does the series 60 Detroits fit in a 1985 45C Series 2 ? If the series 60 fits, what would be the better choice between the QSM 11 and the series 60 in the 45C application ? Thank you,

Greg
1985 45C
Hat Time
N. Bay Village, FL

[George]

Just for grins,

Does the series 60 Detroits fit in a 1985 45C Series 2 ? If the series 60 fits, what would be the better choice between the QSM 11 and the series 60 in the 45C application ? Thank you,

Greg
1985 45C
Hat Time
N. Bay Village, FL

When I re-powered with my C-12's, the decision was more around weight to HP, but that the series 60's are to long and much heavier then the QSM or C12's

[saltshaker]

Just for grins,

Does the series 60 Detroits fit in a 1985 45C Series 2 ? If the series 60 fits, what would be the better choice between the QSM 11 and the series 60 in the 45C application ? Thank you,


I doubt they would fit. If they do there would be little room to service them. I think the QSM11 would be the better and much less expensive choice. The QSM11's are an 11 liter 705HP engine and the series 60 is a 14 liter 825HP engine. The series 60 weigh about 1000lbs more than the QSM11.

[Spanky's Gang]

Hi you all this is TIM. If you guys can put up with my spelling I am going to give you my biased openion of the 45 and the 46. I have owned a 45c for about 4 years. I absoute love the thang it is my baby i have been in every nook and cranny.I paid a 125,000 for it and have totally redone it without replacing the engines. I have spent another 160000 on the inside and outside new every thing. I have redone the engines replacing every thing but the crank. I did not replace engines because of the ride and weight diffrence. I rode in hataboy probley one of the best redone jobs i have seen with the QSM11. Yes it was fast 26 knot cruse easy and efficent but it lost a lot of its seaworthiness in a bad sea the boat had to slow to a 17 to 18 knots mine would creap on by it. I do not know the weight diffrence exactely but from what i found out removing the old detroits and replacing with cummins the weight diffrence was around 3000 pounds lighter including gear. [ certainly replacing with 3000 pounds lighter engins and about 100 more hp the thing gotta go] but you just through out the window that millions of dollars or R&D Hatters did that made the boats what they are.....
The 46s are just one foot longer and one more hookey house and burn more fuel.The 8 that were put in them still push the boat at about 18 to max of 20 knots crusing including the hp verson {high performance} yes you can open it up and with the tide make some more numbers but all in all the 45 will out perorm it in every espect. Except two people can not crap at the same time. I have not rode or seen a 46 with the QSM11 so can not speak to the out come.
IN MY OPENON DO YOU WANT SPEED OR RIDE. If you can live with 18 to 19 knots honest and get back to the dock in the rear of the pack,leave the fuel dock with your credit card in tack get yourself a 45 keep it origional and enjoy.TIM


Hey Tim:

I bought Hatt-a-Boy a year ago August. Just finished our first year with her. She is magnificent and very fast with the QSM-11's. Interesting point you make about the weight difference but I'm fine with the ride. She's still a great deal heavier and rides smoother than most of the flexible flyers out there.

I'm way beyond satisfied with this 45C and highly recommend the Cummins. Quiet and very clean. At the end of the day, I'm chillin with a drink in the cockpit while my neighbor with Cats is scrubbin his transom!

Joe

[Spanky's Gang]

Hello all, looking to buy a good 46c or 45c series II for crusing and fishing on the Chesapeake. Would you know the key differences in the two models and recommended reliable engines please. (i dont need a lot of speed, 18kt - 20kt cruise works for me)

Thanks,
Hutch


Hey Hutch:

I'm a new 45C owner ('87 with 660 hp QSM-11's) and spent about two years doing some of the research that you're into now. I've been on 46's and 45's and while I'm partial to the latter, I would agree with what you're hearing here that you can't go wrong with either.

I'd love to help anyway I can. Send me a PM with you number of you want to chat.

Joe

[Tim Powell]

Hey Tim:

I bought Hatt-a-Boy a year ago August. Just finished our first year with her. She is magnificent and very fast with the QSM-11's. Interesting point you make about the weight difference but I'm fine with the ride. She's still a great deal heavier and rides smoother than most of the flexible flyers out there.

I'm way beyond satisfied with this 45C and highly recommend the Cummins. Quiet and very clean. At the end of the day, I'm chillin with a drink in the cockpit while my neighbor with Cats is scrubbin his transom!

Joe


JOE You got a heck of a boat it is grate i watched it be redone. It was done at the Marina in Beauford NC. The guy that over saw the work is a grate mechanic they did a lot of neet things with that boat under the hatches. You are correct it is a speedster I belive it will peak out at above 30 knots not sure but around that and very comfortabely run a 27 knot cruise it is a neat boat. The watter heater was moved and I am almost sure you can get around the engines on the port side. The ac units being relockated on the starbard side allows good access also. The engine strangers or should i say mounts were done so neat I took picks for future refrence. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND what i said in my post. I made mention of the sea ability and ride because of the weight taken away which in my openion effects the ride and bad sea ability. I am comparing my 45 and the ride i took on that boat on a sloppy day. I in no way want to down grade hataboy. Please excepy my apoligy if you took it that way. You got a good one.I was saying you gain speed but loose some sea ability and ride. Tim

[Spanky's Gang]

JOE You got a heck of a boat it is grate i watched it be redone. It was done at the Marina in Beauford NC. The guy that over saw the work is a grate mechanic they did a lot of neet things with that boat under the hatches. You are correct it is a speedster I belive it will peak out at above 30 knots not sure but around that and very comfortabely run a 27 knot cruise it is a neat boat. The watter heater was moved and I am almost sure you can get around the engines on the port side. The ac units being relockated on the starbard side allows good access also. The engine strangers or should i say mounts were done so neat I took picks for future refrence. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND what i said in my post. I made mention of the sea ability and ride because of the weight taken away which in my openion effects the ride and bad sea ability. I am comparing my 45 and the ride i took on that boat on a sloppy day. I in no way want to down grade hataboy. Please excepy my apoligy if you took it that way. You got a good one.I was saying you gain speed but loose some sea ability and ride. Tim

Thanks for the reply Tim. No offense taken at all. I absolutely love the boat and its great to hear more good things about her. She does top out at 30 plus but we don't go there much. She cruises nice at 26 @1950 full of fuel and gear (we don't travel light).

I'm a little guy and can crawl all the way around the outside of both engines. The Cummins are extremely clean and quiet. I'd love to see the pics you took if you still have them.

Can you point me to a post and pics of yours? What year/power? How you like it?

[st.tully]

Hey Hutch:

I'm a new 45C owner ('87 with 660 hp QSM-11's) and spent about two years doing some of the research that you're into now. I've been on 46's and 45's and while I'm partial to the latter, I would agree with what you're hearing here that you can't go wrong with either.

I'd love to help anyway I can. Send me a PM with you number of you want to chat.

Joe

Hey Joe!

This is George with the 1986 45 Jolly Mon - we met in Beaufort when I was fishing the Big Rock. Glad you are loving your 45 too. My QSM11's are rated at 535hp and I'm getting simialr speeds as yours. What is your max fuel burn and gear ratios?

I just had my three year service and my mechanic offered to bump my HP to 660 - cost would be 5000.00 and involves injectors and computer flash. I passed as I never need more speed than I have.

Cheers, george