Orange antifreeze

[Bob Bradley]

I noted the term "dreaded orange" antifreeze on another recent post. When I bought my 43C last season, and had the engines (6v92's) gone over by my DD mechanic, he drained the green and replaced with orange. Should I be concerned? I've heard rumblings elsewhere, but nothing substantive.
Bob

[mikep996]

The "orange" antifreeze is designed for cooling systems that use aluminum components such as many, or possibly most, new cars. It has more corrosion inhibitors and organic compounds specifically for aluminum radiators, etc.

In theory, if you drain/flush all the green antifreeze, you can replace it with Orange (the two are not compatible together). HOWEVER...silicone seals, used in many engines, are degraded by the organic compounds in orange antifreeze.

Most gasoline engines made after 1995 should be OK for either type antifreeze. I would not use it in ANY diesel engine at all unless I checked with the manufacturer first to determine that it was compatible with the engine's seals. I seem to recall a Cummings Diesel Notice or Tech Bulletin stating that they do not recommend it in any Cummings Diesel but I can't remember for sure. I'll see if I can find it in my files. ("Files" is an overly generous description of the method I use to keep track of things...)

[mikep996]

I found this info from Cummings which was faxed to me in June, 2001. I quote the pertinant part:

"Cummings diesel engines have silicone seals in the engine and do not recommend use of orange antifreeze because the organic acids will cause degradation of the seals after 80,000 to 100,000 miles of use. Coolant can leak past damaged seals into the engine lubrication oil system and plug oil filters with resulting damage to the engine"

I do not have any specific cautions re DD engines. But the formulation for DD spec antifreeze is different than Cummings spec. Therefore it MAY be ok to use the antifreeze in DDs. I don't know for sure from any factory info. As I said earlier, I would not do it unless I specifically checked with DD. Your mechanic may have done that at some time and knows that it's OK.

[mikep996]

This came out prior to the fax I recieved from a Cummins rep that I referenced earlier:

August 6, 1999

North American Customer Bulletin

This communication is being sent to update mutual customers of Cummins Engine Company and Equilon Lubricants on the issue of gasket coolant leakage in Cummins engines, when factory filled with Texaco Extended Life Coolant (TELC).

Cummins Engine Company, Texaco and Equilon Lubricants are working together to find a solution. The teams have already ascertained that the addition of silicates to cooling Systems has shown improved performance between TELC and silicone seals in Cummins engines, and support the following customer options:

1. Add concentrated silicates to Cummins cooling systems that contain TELC.



OR


2. Install coolant filter that contains silicates.

Option 1: Concentrated silicates will be available free of charge from Equilon Lubricants in early September 1999. Special order instructions will be forthcoming, along with Installation procedures, to insure that the concentration of silicates in the cooling system is appropriate for gasket performance improvement.



OR


Option 2: Information on this option will be available by September 1999. At this time we do not have a specific filter that can be recommended, however Equilon is working with multiple filter manufacturers.


Caution: Over-treatment of silicates in the cooling system can be damaging to other components Texaco Equilon Lubricants does not recommend the addition of silicates to engines produced by other manufacturers

Cummins Engine Company, Texaco and Equilon Lubricants have formed a common task force that are working together on short-term and long-term solutions to these issues. Texaco and Equilon Lubricants support Cummins Engine Company's current position to factory fill Cummins engines with conventional coolants technology in North America.

[BEC53]

When I bought my 53 this year it had what I would call "purple" or "dark blue" antifreeze in the 6v92's. It is quite transparent compared to traditional antifreeze. Is this the same thing as "orange"? I had it tested and the lab said it was okay, but that doesn't mean that it is okay for a DD. Any thoughts?

[skammtoo]

DD has their own antifreeze, PowerCool, that is reddish, purplish in color. I started using it a few seasons ago when I cleaned the cooling systems out. Seems to work well.

Have to check it every few years with special test strips from DD.

K

[Bob Bradley]

It sounds like that's the way I want to go. I guess I'll flush the engines and change over. Does anybody know the capacity of a 6v92?

[BEC53]

Thanks for the info. I looked into PowerCool and it appears that it needs to be replaced every two years. PowerCool Plus has a four year life. DD has test strips which will help to determine when it needs to be changed.

[jim rosenthal]

..to using the extended-life coolant (CAT sells this stuff too) as opposed to just draining and refilling the system every two years, which I what I do. Plus I use a CAT corrosion inhibitor additive when I refill it. I have heard that the "orange" stuff is slippery and leaks past hose clamps etc- my CAT dealer verifies this and said if I wanted to use it I would probably have to replace all the hose clamps in the freshwater circuit with constant-tension clamps. Unless there is a big advantage to this stuff, it sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
I did look into using Evans' NPG a few years back, which is neopentyl glycol. They have a variety of testimonials etc but I do not want to be the first penguin off the ice on something like this. :eek It is also difficult to drain the 3116 totally dry in order to use a different type of coolant. Has anyone used Evans' NPG and have any report on it? I'm curious.