Changing prop shaft gland packing

[Nonchalant1]

I have a port prop shaft packing gland that I never touched for 2 years since I bought the boat (1978 53MY, 2" shafts), and it never leaked a drop except when the boat was splashed after 5 months in winter storage. This spring, I noticed that it wobbles when the shaft turns and it's a little off center. It still doesn't drip. I know it's the packing gland wobbling because I put a gauge stick against the shaft and it's running true. There must be a foreign object or a wad of packing material going around inside as the shaft turns. I guess I should'a thought about the gland when it DIDN'T drip, because it's probably overheated from being too tight. I hope it didn't score the shaft. When I run it at 2200 RPM, it warms up to the touch while the starboard packing gland stays cool.

So do you need to haul the boat to repack one of these? It's a 2 piece set of collars that fit one inside the other and it's adjusted by threaded bolts on 2 sides of the gland with nuts and locking nuts to squeeze the forward collar into the packing material held in the aft collar. I'd like to save the $ and do it in the water, but I've never done one. I've read the threads about rudder packing: having the right material on hand in advance, using a dentist's pick to pull the old material out, overlapping diagonal cuts in the material, etc.

I assume you just unscrew the nuts, pull off the forward collar, pick out the old stuff and reinsert the new packing material in layers, but it seems like the water pressure coming in would be pushing the new stuff out before you can get it pushed in properly.

And I'd rather not sink the boat.

Any actual experiences with this type of packing gland would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Doug

[dwaynec]

Doug,
Two years ago I had my mechanic change the packing in my 48 yachtfish. I had never done it before so I wanted to see how it was done with the boat in the water. I too have two inch shafts with the same collar setup you have.

Basically it looked pretty easy. As you noted he pulled the inner collar out and used a pick to pull out what was left of the old packing material. Surprisingly little water came in without the packing. It was a steady flow, but nothing that would make me think that it was a problem. Instead of cutting the packing at each round with a diagonal cut, he wrapped the packing around the shaft about three winds, cut it and shoved it in. He then did a second wrapping of about three rounds and shoved that in in front of the first wrapping. He put the collar in pretty loosly, just enough to hold it in, had me fire up the engines and then put them in gear at idle while he adjusted the packing so that it dripped about three times a minute.

Hope this helps.
Dwayne

[SKYCHENEY]

The last shaft that I packed was years ago on a 57' Chris Craft Constellation. As stated, it was a steady flow of water, but really quite easy after you get over the initial shock of having water running into the bilge. Good luck. :p

[Genesis]

No big deal.

Go get the GFO packing material. Expensive but worth every dime; mine is 4 years old and doesn't leak. 'Nuff said.

Yes, it can be done in the water. I've done both the mains and rudder stocks wet. Water comes in, but its not a big deal. Just make sure you have the correct packing BEFORE you start! :D

[Nonchalant1]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
Is there a "size" of packing material I should get? And what does GFO stand for?

Doug

[Genesis]

GFO is a goretex material - its good stuff. That's what its called "GFO" packing.

My shafts use 1/2" - both the rudders and screws.

Find it here, if you can't get it locally.

http://www.e-marine-inc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html

[Nonchalant1]

Thanks,

I'll let y'all know how it goes. :)

Doug

[mike]

Doug, Call Sam's Marine. Steve McPhereson will know what size packing to use and they'll have it to sell. We've all said we'd support something for this forum, so my version is to just buy from Sam's whenever it makes sense. :)

[Nonchalant1]

Doug, Call Sam's Marine. Steve McPhereson will know what size packing to use and they'll have it to sell. We've all said we'd support something for this forum, so my version is to just buy from Sam's whenever it makes sense. :)

Good one Mike, I recognize it. I thought Sams wouldn't have GFO, but worth a call.

Doug

[Geoff58yf]

Doug one other word of CAUTION...
we have a friend with a 53my '78. Had a wobbling, leaking packing gland, stb side. He changed out the packing and tightend everything up properly. BUT, on their first cruise after (vs checking in gear at the dock) heres what happened:
the previous wobbling effect had LOOSENED THE ENTIRE PACKING TUBE on the pedro (fiberglass tube thats integrated into the hull that the whole works clamps to). It CAME OFF now leaving about a 4inch hole in the hull 3ft below the water line! and because it had spun the packing nut(s) around they smashed the glass in the raw water strainer!! (871's) another 4" water hole! in the raw water intake.
Now, in the blink of an eye, youve got about 500 gallons a minute coming into the engine room. His high water, stb side lit up first then before he could even get down below, the gen room high water lit off. At this point the only thing higher pitched than the alarms was his voice on the radio!!!
This became a serious serious problem in only minutes. He thought the (only) problem was the smashed glass on the strainer, so shut it (by reaching under water, then ran and shut the engine down. STILL not knowing or being able to see that the entire gland had spun off the tube as all his fuel manifolds are just about there. So while he thinks hes stabilized and the pumps will catch up, water is still pouring in...
Long story short, they saw the water still rising, found the tube problem and with pillows blankets etc slowed the leak til the CG came alongside with pumps. Then towed to the yard and into slings.
Anyhow Doug, point of the story is if its wobbling check EVERYTHING on the tube, including the hose clamps!! look for newly exposed surfaces to see if infact it (the hose) has moved at all.
good luck.
geoff58yf

[Trojan]

I would think that you would have to have the packing spinning in a bunch. With a loose glan nut,to cause the whole shaft log to run off center. Bill

[jim rosenthal]

OK, I'm going to be the wet blanket here.....I would not do a procedure on the boat which I hadn't done before, involving opening the bilge to seawater, without being at least once familiar with it. AT least make sure everything else is totally okay before starting this. The thing that bothers me is that this isn't a routine change of packing material- he's doing it because it's not acting right and running hot. This isn't the one to learn on, if you ask me, especially with the boat in the water.
If you're determined to do it in the water, do it at the marina and make sure they know about it so if you need an emergency haulout, you have a prayer of it. OR, do it in the lift well over lunch when they haven't got a boat in the slings, so if they need to haul you out pronto, they can do it. I realize I sound like an old lady. Sorry.

[Genesis]

Naw, if something goes dramatically wrong stuff a towel in there and head for a lift on the good shaft/engine. You can easily stuff enough in there to slow the water to a trickle, and if you have working pumps this is not a big deal.

[jim rosenthal]

OK, Karl, you are braver than I am.... :D

[Genesis]

Is that :cool: or is it :eek: ?

[MikeP]

Jim,

With some saran wrap, a towel and some duct tape, you can totally stop ANY water from coming in past the shaft while you repack. I repacked our 53's stuffing boxes this weekend. I don't think I got more than one gallon of water in the boat - total from both shafts.

I wrapped the towel with saran wrap, moved the packing gland up the shaft, wrapped the saran wrap/towel around the shaft/packing box with the saran wrap against the shaft/box and taped it. The only water that comes in occurs as you are removing/replacing the gland itself.

Actually, not that much water comes in anyway, certainly not enough to be concerned about if, as G says, the bilge pumps are working. On my previous boat I never worried about it and the amount water that came in never even raised the float switch enough to activate the pump. I wasn't sure about this with the 53 since it was my first experience with this boat but I don't think I'd bother with wrapping next time.

I used regular packing instead of GFO because there is a 50 ft spool of it on the boat. If I didn't have it, I'd go with the GFO..

[Nonchalant1]

My tube has a "droop" to it so the gland is not perfectly centered around the shaft. It's close to the shaft on the top and farther away on the bottom. I figured I'll loosen the aft end hose clamps and reposition the tube so it's straight when I have the packing material out to pack the gland. Maybe that's a reason to do this hauled?

Doug

[Pascal]

i was also aprehensive the first time around but it turned out to be pretty easy. plus on the 53MY they are easy to reach.

i used standard packing the first time around without any special tool and it took a while to get the old stuff out. It still leaked so i redid it with GFO and the proper extractor tool (flexible corckscrew...) : Much easy.

the nice thing about the GFO is that it doens't require any grease which make the hwole experience very unpleasant as that special lubircant sticks to your hands...

the port still drips a little but i don't want to overtightened it as i found that one of the 2 bolt had some stripped threads forcing me to add a second nut. not ideal but it will do for now. Shaft may have been scored in the past, we'll see whenver i have to haul out the boat.

I 'm pretty sure i used 1/2 on my 1970 53my but one package isn't enough for 1 gland. I think it took 4 rings so 3 packages neeeded for both engines. check the size of one ring, x 4, you get 30" per package

my port side gland isnt' aligned very well either but I'm reluctant to mess up with the clamps in water...

[Genesis]

I used three rings on my mains. I could get a forth one in there, but didn't see the need, as the three didn't leak.

[mike]

Just pulled our 53MY on Moday, pulled the packing today and found the same poor alignment problem. It was tight on top, lose on the bottom of the gland. When looking at the bottom I noticed that the log angle cut out is set up to accomidate a shallower angled shaft. I believe Hatt designed the log to work with both the 58' and 53' hull. The log angle appears to be set up for the 58', it may be a compromise. I will also try to reposition the log hose but I am not hopeful. By the way the log takes 1/2" packing, i am using GFO.

[Trojan]

You can have to much packing in the cap. If I remember correct they were only designed for 2 wraps. If you notice when you have the cap off the male end of the shaft log has a ( V ) taper,tapering in. So when you tighten the cap,which is flat inside, it forces the packing into the (V)around the shaft sealing the shaft. If you have to much packing. You must use a lot more force to tighten the cap to get it to seal. Also it could just bunch up in the cap and may not seal proper. Which could cause the shaft log to run off center. This is the case where more is not better.You should almost be able to tighten the nut by hand. Just make sure you have the correct size packing. Make sure you cut the packing on a 45 Deg. and put the cuts 180 Degs.from each other. Just because you can get more packing in the cap does not make it correct. The added threades and space in the cap are required to withstand the compression force on the seal and keep the threads from stripping. Bill

[Nonchalant1]

You can have to much packing in the cap. If I remember correct they were only designed for 2 wraps. If you notice when you have the cap off the male end of the shaft log has a ( V ) taper,tapering in. So when you tighten the cap,which is flat inside, it forces the packing into the (V)around the shaft sealing the shaft. If you have to much packing. You must use a lot more force to tighten the cap to get it to seal. Also it could just bunch up in the cap and may not seal proper. Which could cause the shaft log to run off center. This is the case where more is not better.You should almost be able to tighten the nut by hand. Just make sure you have the correct size packing. Make sure you cut the packing on a 45 Deg. and put the cuts 180 Degs.from each other. Just because you can get more packing in the cap does not make it correct. The added threades and space in the cap are required to withstand the compression force on the seal and keep the threads from stripping. Bill

Trojan,

53MYs do not have a threaded cap. The cap is a collar with two threaded studs which have nuts to do the squeezing. GFO recommends 90 degree difference in cut placement. Your logic still applies though: more is not necessarily better. I'll use 3 rings like Genesis did.
Also, I think you're right that the whole packing is spinning, which is the cause of the wobbling gland when running.

Thanks,

Doug

[GaryNW]

a few comments/questions-
Back in the early 80's, one could buy the traditional flax/beeswax type packing or teflon impregnated. I thought the teflon sounded slick (yeah, pun intended) and specified it on a 4" shaft for a seiner. My thought was it should reduce temperature at a given squeeze force. Is the teflon still around? I had not heard of GFO- it must be slick as well...

On spinning the packing- This sounds odd to me. The shaft is smaller dia and probably smoother than the gland. Why on earth would the packing spin in the gland vs the shaft?

On wobble- If I had this, I think I would do shaft alignment at next haulout and strive to center the shaft in the log. I mean, alignment does not last forever, things settle and shift. My old sailboat auxilliary was out of line at some point in the boat's life and the shaft log was ovaled on the inside. The wall thickness was getting thin! Fix would have been a bitch as the log was a complicated casting that had the rudder hole integral.
Gary

[Trojan]

In a previous post he said the log wobbled and the shaft was in line.That would seam to be the only logical answer. More like bunching of the packing caused by a loose nut or old packing left in it. I agree it would be odd. But there are stranger things. Bill

[mike]

Found 4 packing rings in the shaft log. Also found the raw water intake seacock valves to be trashed. It's a real bear to remove the 2 1/2" seal nut, 5200 is tough stuff, it required a 4' pipe extension on a breaker bar to get enough leverage. I can report that the hull in the intake area is a full 1" thick.......and luckly found no delamination. mike

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

Were you able to correct the alignment of the packing gland versus shaft and log? I don't know whether to try it on the rear (shaft log) side of the hose or the gland end of the hose. It seems like the shaft log side would adjust it better, but is that end pre-determined by the shaft log geometry instead of how the hose is attached? And do they put the shaft log hose on with some kind of sealer, making it almost impssible to move by just loosening the hose clamps?

Thanks,

Doug

[mike]

Doug,

I have not got that far along, still working on fixing the raw water intake. But at first glance it appears that both hose ends will have to be adjusted on my setup. When I removed all the packing the log sat down on the shaft. There is a tremendous amount of down pressure from the log hose. It is very apperent that the hose connection and alignment is critical. I don't believe a sealer is used between the hose, log and gland. But if one is concerened you could use Merc-cruser bellows glue, I have used it with great success on my old TRS drives in my offshore sport boat. The only problem is you have to be high and dry to use it. By the way, 3" long sheet rock scews driven into the packing makes for a good removal tool. Drive one in and pry it out with vise grips,...works great, just make sure you bias the screw away from the shaft and toward the log body. Mike

[Nonchalant1]

So thanks to this group, I repacked both of my prop shaft glands today (wet) with GFO. It took 3 hours because "nothing is ever simple". They're practically drip-free after 2 hours of running and a little adjusting. I'll watch them closely for another few running hours in May. Here's some "Lessons Learned":
1. The water coming in is not bad. Maybe a gallon in 2 minutes. The bilge pumps keep up with it easily (Rule 2000 pumps).
2. Mike absolutely saved my arse from a much longer ordeal digging out the old packing by recommending 3" long drywall screws as extractors. It's REALLY HARD to get the old flax stuff out and I had made a few sharp bent pick things to try, but with the drywall screws you just screw them into the flax and grab them with a vise grip and pull. THANKS MIKE !!!! I tried my pick things and a dental pick but that stuff is WAY stronger and wedged in way tighter than picks can get out. Only problem was I wanted 4" drywall screws to get at that last layer at the far end of the gland.
3. GFO works great. I knew to cut it at a 45 degree angle, but I didn't know which way the angle was supposed to be (overlapping front to rear or overlapping outside to inside. So I alternated them in the layers.
4. The fit of the 2 collars keeps any misaligned gland angle from misforming the GFO too much. Mine is too close on the top and too far on the bottom, but the collar minimizes that.
5. You use the collar to push in each successive layer of new GFO. The studs are long so the nuts tighten the layers in just fine.
6. I found 4 layers of flax and the wobbling port gland had a 5th partial layer that was a wad. I think it was incompletely removed from the previous time it was packed and was spinning like a wad at the bottom layer. I put 3 layers of GFO back in.
7. Both glands still have an almost imperceptible wobble when running, like maybe a 32nd or 64th inch. I'm going to let it go and watch it. The hoses were clamped stongly and had not moved on the shaft log any (thanks Jim). I'll watch that too. If Mike is successful in realigning glands by adjusting his shaft log hoses, I'll try that too whenever I have it hauled but it's $500 to haul at my marina that I don't want to spend.

Thanks again,

Doug Shuman

[Trojan]

They never run true true. That is why they use packing and a rubber boot instead of a seal or O ring with a solid mount. Glad you got it done. Another one under your belt. With stories like this. We will all start doing our own work. Sears have a regular packing remover kit. Bill

[Genesis]

West has a corkscrew pick on a flexible shaft with a T-handle on the end that works well.

Screw in and PULL.

Just don't get a defective one. I had one that wasn't swaged together properly and the pick part came out of the barrel when I yanked on it. That really pissed me off, because I then had to go get another one, and had a piece of pick in there which meant I had to get that other one RIGHT NOW and take care of it.

[jim rosenthal]

It's a bit late for this...but there is a solution that un-bonds polyurethane adhesives such as 5200. It is called Anti-Bond and boating stores have it, at least West does. It helps somewhat.

[mike]

Doug,

Why only 3 rings of GFO and not 4 ? I am getting ready to do the packing on this Wed. What made you decide to go with only 3?

I have been out a week now working on my Naiad stabilizers...what a pain in the arse. Had to remove and replace bearings and seals...so much for their "life-time seals" claim. The seals were fine, they just allowed water in to get at the bearings. Also had to replace both seacocks for my mains. By the way I found that some yard-bird put my water pick-up stariners on with inch long screws and penetrated the inside of the hull, causing local delamination. Had to dig it out, dry it and epoxy back fill. Mike

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

Genesis put 3 rings on his, the GFO package said three, and there was just enough GFO in one package to do three.

I didn't try to adjust my log hose (too scary in the water!) so I'm interested in yours. There was a lot of downward pressure on the gland, pushing it closer at the top as we discussed. I found that by placing the GFO on a very smooth flat surface and pounding it a little flatter with a hammer, that I could get it squeezed in easier at the top where it's tight. You carefully remember which side was on the flat surface (I used the GFO label side as a marker) and put that side of the GFO against the shaft so there are no "dents" from the hammer on the shaft sealing surface.

If I were out of the water, I'd loosen just the aft hose clamps and try to spin my whole gland and hose 180 degrees so any hose droop is now upward pressure. If the hose is straight, then the problem is in the shaft log design, as you indicated. ("Shaft Log" is that fiberglass, log shaped, hose holder that the shaft goes through as a through-hull in the boat. On a bare hull, it looks like a log.)

Tell me how it goes.

Doug Shuman

[mike]

Doug, thanks for the info. I can get a finger in the bottom gap on the log, the top sits right on the shaft. I'll try to give it a go with your idea of reversing the packing gland 180 deg., assuming I can get the log hose loose with out tearing it up. I want to avoid removing the coupling from the shaft...that is a real pain. I'll keep you all posted on my success or failure... thanks, mike

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

If you can't spin it 180 - I used a 2" dia. 3 ft. long pipe placed on the hull and against the bottom of the gland as a lever to lift it up to get the GFO in. I would think that a car scissor jack with one or two bricks as a base might hold it in any position more easily, or even lift it after you undo the clamps. You'd have to be careful not to apply too much force with the scissor jack.

Doug

[solanderi]

Am reading w/ interest this thread as after my last run I have developed a 2 drip per second leak on the port shaft log. BTW I noted that the shaft did not use to turn while in neutral, then began to slowly turn and after the last run began to leak. The logs were previously almost completely dry. I have enclosed a picture of the culprit (the actual shaft log does not have any letters on it, ha ha) but I would just like to confirm that it is letters A - D that I am cranking down on to stem the flow.

Also, what kind of operating temps should I expect and where exactly should I read off? Shaft, log etc...

Thank you for the FIX YOUR HATT BY THE NUMBERS lesson.

[solanderi]

Here is the picture. Thanks

[Genesis]

Nope - it is "E" and "F" you turn to cinch down the packing.

The others are the log hose clamps - if they're tight leave 'em alone. Cranking them won't stop the leaking if its the packing.

(PS: Nice spray deflector on the shaft! I like it!)

PPS: Next time you CHANGE the packing run a nut down each of those long studs BEFORE you put the collar on. That way you can use them to jack off the collar the next time you need to get in there to change it. Its a royal bitch to get it out otherwise....

[Nonchalant1]

Karl,

OK.

Doug

[Genesis]

Now now, let's keep it clean around here.... :rolleyes:

[mike]

Doug,

Your idea of flipping the hose 180 deg worked, the alignment problem went away. i would recomend loosening the log hose, replacing the packing and then aliging the gland, lastly tightening the clamps. I was able to spin the log hose very easly with a 12" long bar between the gland and the adj. studs.
Unfortunately I have to go with the drip-less glands. My seal area on the shafts are too scorred to seal with a GFO packing. It's a difficult job, but may be worth the pain and cost. Week three and still out of the water. Bottom painted and new zinks, Naiads rebuilt , raw water sea-cocks replaced, now working on the drip-less shaft seals and shaft bearings.

[Genesis]

Biggest PITA with that is splitting the coupler halves (easy) and getting the coupler half off the shaft (a REAL biatch)

While you're at it check the alignment and take care of it if you're out a bit.... since you've got the coupler apart.....

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

Thanks much for the info. I may get up the gumption to loosen my shaft log clamps and spin the hose and gland while in the water. If I do, I'll come back here and post how it goes.

This has been a long thread, so I think I'll respond to Karl's idea by starting another post on shaft-engine alignment. I've never done it. I wonder about that "wobble" even though my shafts don't seem to wobble with a visual check of a pointed stick taped to a strut and pointed 1/4 inich away from the turning shaft to gauge it.

Thanks again,

Doug

[mike]

Genesis,

Your right it's a MAJOR PITA.... the yard doesn't even want to do it. Any recomendations on removing the coupler? I am going to try using a Porto-power, placing the ram between the shaft and a 3/4" thick plate bolted to the coupler with 6" long bolts. The ram i am going to try is a 4 ton cap unit that is about 3" long and has a 1" max extension. The idea is to move the shaft an inch, then put in a spacer and move it another inch and so on until the shaft clears the coupler.

My other approach was to put a thick spacer between the shaft flange and the trans flange and place a large dia scocket between the shaft end and then pull the two flanges together with long bolts throught the origional coupler holes. My concern with this method is that I may damage or bend the trans coupler flange. However I perfer this method it's simpler and lot cheaper, but if I damage the flange it could be far more costly.

What is your expercience with doing this? Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated. Mike

[GaryNW]

My (30) year old copy of marine SAE stds shows (2) approaches to shaft couplings- taper bore or straight bore. Which did Hatteras use? Also, there are (3) retention methods- a nut (features big recess in coupling), set screw(s) and taper pin. I could see where taper-bore would give the same problem as prop removal. I'm thinking that in addition to one of the methods mentioned for applying tons of pressure, sharp blows with a big hammer might be needed. The coupling is robust and a few dents won't hurt anything- just don't wail on the flange. I guess there is no real way of heating up all that steel? ref: SAE J756

Comment on alignment: If going through the aforementioned bitch, this is the logical time to replace cutless bearings. Engines are aligned to shafts; shafts are not aligned to engines. New cutlesses re-establish the correct (centered) shaft alignment. Ever noticed uneven wear on old cutlesses? I suspect misalignment is more at fault than thrust loads.
Gary

[Genesis]

If the cutless bearings have uneven wear then you are out of line - that is correct.

There is no point trying to align a system that is sloppy. If the cutless bearings are not in good condition, you have to replace them before you can set the alignment.

[Nonchalant1]

So today I fixed the prop shaft gland misalignment by spinning the entire hose & gland assembly 180 degrees (the same as Mike did). The gland hose had drooped from holding the weight of the gland over the years such that the gland was very close to the shaft at the top and very loose at the bottom. So spinning the whole thing 180 degrees uses the hose droop to your advantage to hold the galnd in very good alignment. I did it in the water and very little water came in. All I did was to put a hose clamp on the prop shaft 1/4 inch from the gland to keep it from slipping back, and then loosened the hose clamps on the aft (log) end and spun it around and retightened the clamps. Works great! I haven't run it yet to ensure it's good. Some day soon.

Doug Shuman
1978 53MY

[mike]

Warning!!! Check shaft alignment!!!! I am now deep into it on my main shaft packing gland replacement. As a result of changing to the PYI dripless units I found my stbd trans flange to be loose. On further inspection I noticed that the oil slinger behind the flange between the flange and bearing had been crushed (and lost their pre-load of 280ft/lbs) and that the Trans coupling and shaft have the splines erroded away as a result of poor shaft allignment. This problem did not happen over night, it appears to be years of wear. This has been the haul-out from hell....fixing years of negelect by the previous owner. Caveat-emptor NONE of this was picked up by the survey, ...what a surprise!!!! This also explains why so much packing (5 rings) was in the old gland. The good news is I'll fix it by changing out all the cutless bearings on the shafts, replace the drive coupling and driven shaft in the trans, and add new vibration dampening motor mounts and a flex coupling between the flanges. The end result will be a dry bilge, less vibration and an aligned running gear system, and maybe even less noise .....and of course a much lighter wallet. Mike

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

If you mean SHAFT alignment, I think I'm OK. If you mean ENGINE alignment, how to check it without a major deal just to check??

Re: shafts - I had all cutlass bearings replaced and the shafts aligned from the winter haulout 18 months ago but never had the "engine alignment" checked. The boat runs, accelerates, and planes with no vibration. The guy that put in my stabilizers said he was amazed at how smooth it was getting up on plane, and he's done a lot of 53MY's and similar boats.

Re: engine alignment - I read David Pascoe's treatise on alignment and he indicated almost no value to using a feeler gauge on the gear flanges. I did what he suggested and checked for shaft wobble at 1200 RPM underway, and found it to be running true. Is there a way to check what you're suggesting without a major operation, just to check??

Re scored shafts - mine seem to be OK, but I wondered if you can just put a longer or shorter hose on the gland to move it to a smooth area of the shaft.

Thanks,

Doug

[SKYCHENEY]

Mike,

How many hours are on your boat? I just thought the rest of us with similar hours should take a close look at our alignments.

[mike]

Well guys, it just got more ugly on my port engine as well. The port trans shaft and flange splines are ok, BUT the shaft bearing is trashed. I am now personaly into the gear box changing out the double row ball bearing. With respect to hours, the boat has about 3800 hrs on the engines and drive train. I have found that the aft engine mounts have settled about 3/8" to 1/2" on the verticle, thay are ok on the horzontal axis. What is interesting the origional DD docs. describe these mounts as an optional - "resilent type mount". On closer inspection there is a bonded elastomer that appears to have delaminated. My new mounts are PYI 1200 lbs units. I am welding up brackets using 1" x 2 1/2" flat bar bent at 90 deg and attached to the trans, and for the front I am welding the same to the existing brackets. In addition I am adding the vibration spacer between the two flanges. What really tic's me off is I paid a heafty price for a survey that states the mounts are in " good condition" and "no excess movement found on sea trials". Further on closer inspection I found the Stbd flang coupler to have a recently added seal serface repair seleve and oversize seal. What is really telling is that I also found hidden in the port engine room a simular new un-used repair kit. The first sign of a problem short of vibration, is oil sling out between the two flanges. If this happens the game is over, because for this type of oil failure to occur the slinger-ring between the flange and driven shaft gear may be damaged, and or the retainer nut (which seals the oil in) has lost it's 280 ft/lb torque preload, which in turn is evidence of either a bearing or spline coupling failure. FYI if you need to remove the shaft coupler because it's a morris taper, I strongly recomend renting a Porto-power, just place a small 2 1/2" ram between the two flanges with 2 - 5 1/2" long 5/8" grade 8 bolts and pump, they both poped easly. I tryed the same clamping approach by tightening all 6 grade 8 flange bolts with a spacer between the flanges, and no success. Regarding alignment, I found one way to check it is to remove the coupler and spot the center line of the shaft to the center line of the transmission, it's a pain but I believe it works, assuming your shaft bearings are ok.

By the way does any one know the location of the set secrews that hold in the cutless- bearings located at the engine end? Mike

[Nonchalant1]

Mike,

I don't know if it's pertinent, but Pascoe's article also mentions that a boat's hull changes shape when it's hauled compared to when it's in the water, including a potential difference between engine stringers. When all of your extensive work is done, can you (or should you) do final engine alignment in the water? I'm a novice at any trans or engine alignment work, so I'm just wondering if it applies.

Doug Shuman

[SKYCHENEY]

Maybe it's just SeaRays that change shape :D

[mike]

On the re-alignment I am going to do the final set-up in the water, for the same reasons you mentioned. I'll let you know the amount of change between being on the hard vs in the water. I hope there is no difference, but I do expect to see some change.

[Trojan]

Your boat should sit in the water at least a week before you try to do a shaft flange alignment. Your boat will change shape in the water. Never align the flanges on the hard. All boats change shape from the hard to the water. Pascoe is correct. Bill

[Nonchalant1]

Final installment on the original subject - packing glands. After spinning the shaft log hoses 180 degrees to offset hose droop that caused the gland to be too low on the shaft, and repacking with GFO, she's now running centered, almost dripless and completely cool after 2 hours. I'm going to call this one done, but may this thread live on until Mike has conquered his workload and is splashed again.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Doug