water in keel

[major hattitude]

We just pulled out for the winter. while in the slings we saw water driping from the tail end of the keel,looked like damage from a previous grounding.While moving throu the yard they had the nose down about three feet compared to the stern.the fwd bilge pump kept kicking on .pumping out nasty black stinky water. so before they set it down we cut about 4 inches off the back bottom cornner of keel.when they blocked the boat level we got a lot of water out of keel.plann on reglassing corner of keel in spring after all dried out.The big question is where can we acess the keel from the inside next year so we know no more water is getting in.we are 74 CPMY but beleave was built as 65 PHMY in 1988.We have fuel tank under vip,in hall between motors and water tank in master statroom.keel was not extended ,or running gear moved when Hatt of lauderdale extended for cockpit.

[REBrueckner]

I don't understand your observations yet:

It sounds like nobody looked inside the bilge while the boat was being transported to see where the "black stinky water" was coming from inside the bilge?? If water was running from the keel into the bilge and also out the back corner of the bilge, where you cut, it sounds like you have a crack or open passage between the two....yet you say nothing about your bilge pump coming on due to a leak while you were in the water??

Perhaps you can explain how black stinky water ran both out the after corner of the bilge and also into the interior of the bilge without a saltwater leaks when in the water....if water was leaking into your boat when in the water seems like the water leaking out at haul would have been pretty clear/clean...

[major hattitude]

I dont know if keel void and fwd bilge are connected it could have been that the fwd bilge was cycleing all summer or not,maybe the water in the fwd bilge is a leaky toilet or holding tank,wich is under the genny room.Do I have two problems or one.Is the keel void water tight from bilge,or is water from keel getting in fwd bilge under holding tank.If they are then where can I get acess under floor to see interior of keel.

[REBrueckner]

One thing you can do is fill your bilge with water from a hose while hauled...either it leaks out the keel or it doesn't.....If it does leak, it's wet already and some extra water will not make any difference. If not, then all you have to do is fix the exterior at the bottom aft end of the keel in the spring....

I'm suspicious about a leak at the aft end of the keel due to a grounding in that area related to water in the bilge at the front of the boat.

Of course you might have two underwater keel damage points and have not discovered the forward one which may have been "repaired" and might be leaking....

[jim rosenthal]

At least in theory, the two spaces are not connected. In practice, I am not at all sure. The hollow keels of these boats were filled with foam, but the foam degrades and if the exterior integrity of the keel is breached, the keel will have water in it.

I agree with putting clean water in the bilge to see if it's leaking into the keel, but I would add some food coloring as well; it won't hurt anything. If the bilge is divided into compartments it may help you figure out which one is leaking into the keel. When you get ready to repair it, prolonged drying of the keel inside is critical to the repair. Best way to do it is rig up a vacuum to pull air through the keel for a week or two, preferably when it is cold and dry outside. I did that, and when I was certain it was dry, I repaired the holes. I posted the method I used a few years ago; you may be able to find it with the search function. If not, PM me and I'll go over it with you. It's not difficult, just lengthy..

[Genesis]

I found nasty, stinky water in my keel of my 45C.

But I had a "plug" in the engine room on centerline that didn't seal (it just dropped into a bronzed circular fitting, presumably how they foamed it originally when the boat was built.) Guess how the water got in there? Yep. Any tiny bit of water that got into the center section inevitably found it's way down that hole.

I pumped it out and tried to determine HOW it was getting in there, but failed. It had to be through the hole, as there was no other place for it to get in from. Dyed water in all the bilge compartments found nothing - and the water was not salty (electrode and evaporative test, not gonna taste that yikes!) so it wasn't coming from outside the boat. It wasn't from the waste or fresh water tank (it sure wasn't fresh and it didn't have the eau-de-sewage that would be obvious with black water) either.

I gave up, pumped it out, dumped in some bleach and fresh water, went for a run to slosh it up good and kill whatever was in there, pumped it out again - and resigned myself to the fact that this was just part of the reality of these boats. It's a hollow space down low - if water can find a way in there, it will.

[Airpilot]

I believe this is somewhat common on some Hatts and the PO of my boat actually installed a plug in the keel that can be removed after haul out in order to drain the water from the keel.

[captpl]

What purpose does the expandable foam in our keels serve?? other than being a sponge as it breaks down over time. Noticed the engine room floor tabbing had come "loose" about 2 linear feet on the stbd stinger, and the floor had lifted. Water in keel Yippee! Carefully cut the tabbing against the stingers and pulled the glass out, next the 3/4" ply. FOAM..... really!!! the trusty claw hammer and proceeded to remove ALL the F*^#%g foam. There were channels and pockets of water throughout. I am positive that drilling a few holes in the keel and using a shop vac will not remove all the water in the keel, too many voids and channels as we removed the foam, and did I mention the wonderful "aroma". Void painted white, sectioned off an area forward for a pump, area aft put in an inspection hatch, new engine room floor all glassed in. No more Hatteras "aroma" and not a drop of water in the keel.

[bostonhatteras]

I believe the foam acted as a support for the fiberglass cloth as it was being laid up. The stringers in particular do no rely on the foam for strength. The foam was simply how to lay up the stringer. Often the foam was also used to retain items in place such as fuel tanks. The foam doesnt really absorb water like a sponge. It does get maybe an inch or so in but the volume of water is actually pretty small. The tanks being fiberglass are more or less immune from problems with moisture unlike aluminum. Hatteras was able to install these tanks in a relatively simple and cost effective way with the foam. Considering the overall superior engineering of these boats, the foam retaining a small amount of water isn't that big a deal in my opinion. Go buy a searay and see how many engineering problems you'll have. Lol

[jim rosenthal]

I agree. And btw the repair I did in my keel has held up now for the better part of twenty years- so far so good. I described how it was done earlier in this old thread.

Essentially there are two ways the water can get in- up from below, or down from above. Or, I suppose, both ways. I wouldn't hesitate to pull the foam out, but you can't get to the entire length of the inside of the keel without major surgery in a lot of these boats.

[SeaEric]

Would it make any sense to drill a hole in the keel at the lowest point when she was hauled, let her drain then add a threaded bronze drain plug?

[SKYCHENEY]

Would it make any sense to drill a hole in the keel at the lowest point when she was hauled, let her drain then add a threaded bronze drain plug?

I have seen that done and it seems to work quite well.

[magnawake]

Last year I found the same thing. Mine was bubbling up through my aft shower sump. I thought it was shower water that just leaked in there over time. I cut a 4"x4" hole in the sump and found lots of stinky water (black) and all the foam known to man. I put a tygon (clear) hose on a coat hanger and went all the way down and sucked all the water out with a vacuum. I let in dry for 2 months, then fiber glassed the hole I cut back in. Two weeks ago, I saw more water bubbling up. I bought a rubber maid container and placed it in the sump with the pump, so I know its not the aft shower. I believe it has to be rain water getting in from somewhere and going all the way down. My forward shower sump may be leaking and finding its way all the way back aft too or fresh water tank leaking. My ER bilges are bone dry. I'm going to pump it out again and leave the hole open for future inspections. This is really troubling. Good Post though.

[jim rosenthal]

With regard to putting a drain in the keel, yes, it works well, and some boats have it from the factory. I think I may have seen an Atlantic 47 that had one.

[captpl]

Probably should have gone into a little more detail. The boat during re-power was fitted with a new aft bulkhead and 2 sliding doors center line. The old engine room access became a hatch..... which is not exactly water tight, well not as good as the old entry, buy more convenient. Water would collect between the stringers with nowhere to go. The trusty sponge and bucket. A boat yard had the bright idea to cut a one by one through the engine room floor forward, remove the foam in that area and install a sump pump. I understand that this foam material is supposed to be close cell but it is not, at least not after our self inflicted breach into the core. I can tell you water was everywhere in the foam, channels, pockets of water and crystallized areas throughout. It was an absolute mess, and with the cold here in the Northeast when the water froze there went the engine room floor. Extremely thankful it went up and didn't split the keel..... hopefully we cured that problem and didn't create more as the keel is now hollow with no coring at all.

[gregalves]

I had noticed water draining into the aft bilge area a year ago on my 53. It turned out that the aft shower drain had fallen off/rusted off some time ago and now the shower water was just dumping into the bilge. I have plugs that stop it from running through the engine room, so it must have filled the keel first, so didn't detect any leaking at first. Eventually the keel filled and then began to run into the aft area, but along the starboard stringer that is above the bilge. I replaced the shower drain pipe and it has been OK since. Not sure if this could be your problem but thought I"d pass this along.

[KindofBlue]

Have had a similar issue and drained water out of keel twice but could never find the source. May have found it today in the engine room. Can water get underneath the floor down the center and cause it to raise and crack along the stringer