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View Full Version : Little tiny bubbles under 1.5 yr old Interlux Brightside



akintosyali
09-22-2008, 04:13 PM
I applied Interlux brighside paint to the T last spring. Sanded off the old paint, waited for the right temp no wind and low humidity day, watered around the the boat at the yard to prevent any dust, then applied 2 coats of primers and then 2 coats of interlux brightside.

About a month ago I started seeing these little micro bubles sticking out of the paint. I originally saw them on the cabin top. I thought they were a small imperfection in a small area. But over time, I started seeing these bubles everywhere, the transom, the bow, top, sides, everywhere..

Now I am mad. It took so much time and effort that I can't believe I may have to do it all over again...

Does anyone know the cause of these bubbles? Could it be bad paint?? Is it time to re-paint in 2 years???

Boatsb
09-22-2008, 05:30 PM
Looks like the paint is separating. Could there be water in the glass? What primer? What filler? What paint?

rrrestorer
09-22-2008, 06:06 PM
A picture would really help. What do you mean by "micro bubbles"? What you are describing "normally" happens right when you paint it. Make sure that there isnt something on top of the paint. Wet sand a small area. I have been fooled in the past into thinking that there is something wrong with paint, when the actual problem was something on top of the paint. Sap or overspray perhaps? Delamination is usually large areas , half dollar and larger areas, microbubbles just dont happen to cured paint.
Sand a small area and you will know for sure.--------Pete

Brian Degulis
09-22-2008, 07:43 PM
It's very un likely to be bad paint. If you pop them is it wet or dry underneath?

Brian

yachtsmanbill
09-22-2008, 09:10 PM
I left the cushions on my bow seat last winter and they were soaked. In the spring there was a million half pea sized blisters and when you popped them, they stunk to high heaven !! I was surprised as this is Awlgrip (supposedly).
I say sand it down and lets paint BOTH boats in the spring! You sand, and I'll paint; DEAL??? ws

TedZ
09-23-2008, 06:01 AM
Open air bubbles after a year are primer - paint incompatability or improper mixing - catalysing, bad thinner etc.

Bubbles under seat cushions are blisters. Under dark, moist conditions you get blisters easily. Place the cushions on two layers of bilge diapers cut to the propper width if necessary. That will solve the problem. Has nothing to do with the Awlgrip...is under the paint and primer.

Ted

Brian Degulis
09-23-2008, 08:08 AM
I left the cushions on my bow seat last winter and they were soaked. In the spring there was a million half pea sized blisters and when you popped them, they stunk to high heaven !! I was surprised as this is Awlgrip (supposedly).
I say sand it down and lets paint BOTH boats in the spring! You sand, and I'll paint; DEAL??? ws

Awlgrip will always do that if anything at all is kept up against it. I saw an awlgrip job ruined by shrink wrapping.

Brian

Pete
09-23-2008, 08:35 AM
BTW, Imron will react the same if anything acting as a vapor barrier is held against it for a while.

Pete

George
09-23-2008, 12:35 PM
agreed, moisture, but how it became so expansive is beyond comprehension.

dastahl
09-23-2008, 07:27 PM
I would guess the moisture from sraying down the dust. No wind? Thats a possibility.

Another may be the primer. Some folks use chromate primers on fiberglass. These primers contain various chromates to fight corrosion on metals like steel and aluminum. Zinc chromate for steel and molibdium for aluminum (I bet these are not spelled right) If these are used on plastic they simply react with the salt water moisture and make salt bublbles. You should use an epoxy talc based primer or no primer for fiberglass.

Next why would ever do two coats of primer on fiberglass? You do not need to increase the base as fiberglass is already plastic, you only need to make sure its smooth and add a prime coat for adhesion. Thats why they use regualr epoxy paints as primers on fiberglass. you certainly would not need film build. The film build would be for the topcoat which over the year will wear down.

Skooch
42 LRC 1980

rrrestorer
09-23-2008, 08:36 PM
Only problem with the moisture theory is the timeline. He says that the paint was fine for a year and a half. The moisture bubbles would have been visible instantly or at least as soon as the paint was dry. We would sometimes get "solvent popping" which were "tiny bubbles" when the paint dried too quickly and the surface coat skimmed over before the solvent was out of the paint, but again that happens within the first couple of hours not 1 1/2 years later.
On metal you would sometimes get this if their was water in the air line while you were spraying the primer, the paint would cover, and even come out smooth, but eventually the moisture trapped next to the metal would cause the metal to rust and get small bubbles. This was mostly with lacquers, which I'm sure wasn't used on your boat.
Paint will crack, peel, dull out, and do a lot of things but "micro bubbles" after all that time ,especially on fiberglass is a new one.
My money is still on something on top of the paint, wet sand with 1500 grit and buff it and see what happens.

rrrestorer
09-23-2008, 08:45 PM
If it is something on top of the paint and it sands off, you might be able to wash it off with thinner or solvent. Try different products untill someting works. This is also the easiest and cheapest solution as painting a boat is a big job, and repainting if there is something wrong with your paint means that you have to sand off the defective paint if you want your new paint to last at all. You say you have two coats of primer on there now, was there something wrong with the paint to start with? Did you try to cover up your problems with primer?

akintosyali
09-23-2008, 11:33 PM
Sorry about the wait. Went over to the boat tonight, had a look at the paint. And got so frustrated.... I spent so much time and effort on this paint job that I can't believe this happened to me. Here is the picture:

http://www.europeanonyx.com/tosyali/2008/Hatt_projects/Image00001090808.jpg

I looked at it closely, and it was definitely small bubbles from under the paint that popped.. Arghhh.

I keep receipts religiously (especially for every penny I spend on the boat)-in case I need to return something..

I pulled up the receipts, 5 gallons of Interlux Brightside, 1 Gallon of Interlux Brushing Liquid, 2 gallons of Interlux Pre-Kote.

PS: I am in Chicago. so salt water is not an issue.
I want to call interlux and ask for a refund. You think I have a chance?

Again, the amazing thing is that I did not have this problem 2 months ago. In the last 2 months nothing unusual happened - I did not change the slip from last year. So it can not be something off of the trees.

Boatsb
09-24-2008, 08:29 AM
Akin, Relax thats the non skid you ordered that was om back order. :)

Really the question is could there have been contamination ( water or otherwise ) on the boat before the primer?

If not between coats?

I have only had one time where the paint was bad (the shop used the wrong tints and it was incompatible with the base) so the chances of it being the pre mixed paint is very low

rrrestorer
09-24-2008, 09:09 AM
That looks like solvent popping, What happened was that the paint skimmed over before the solvent evaporated, trapping it. It created bubbles which poppped. The only other thing it looks like is fisheye, I had this happen to a motorhome that we were refinishing, when someone sprayed silicone up wind of our exhaust fan. It ruined the job, it was Imron, and we had to wetsand the entire motorhome down with 400 grit until the fisheyes were gone, seal it again and shoot it again.
Again what I'm seeing is stuff that happens immediately at the time of painting. Have never seen these type of bubbles in cured paint in 45 years of commercial painting.
If you are absolutely sure these werent in there before, go to your paint supplier and ask him to call a paint rep from Interlux, if the paint failed(and I am very skeptical) you might be able to get something from them, even if it is more paint! Good luck.

Brian Degulis
09-24-2008, 09:31 AM
Since this happened long after the application it's not solvent poping that happens right away. I would say it's moisture in the substrate that's gassing out. It proubably started when the surface was warmed up from the sun.

Brian

akintosyali
09-24-2008, 11:18 AM
Well, before I painted the boat, after all the sanding, I wiped the surface with acetone before the primer to remove any oil, wax, sweat, dirt.. Waited for the primer to dry, sanded that with 320, and applied the paint. So Hard for me to imagine this happening because of contamination.

"moisture in the substrate"? IS that moisture in fiberglass?? If that is the case, shouldn't I be seeing fiberglass blisters?

34Hatt
09-24-2008, 11:43 AM
Well I have seen this happen on two boats so far. Both boats were painted in dry building and were in them for 6 months prior. They were painted by the book using proper mixing,thinners and cleaners. Also done by two different painters. One was fine all summer and the bubbles happened in the fall and winter when it got cold. The second boat did not happen until the second winter. These boats still get a few more bubbles each year only in the Winter.
The paint was Sterling and we blame the paint and the fact that it was around the time they played with the paint for lower VOC.
Unfortunately this is just a educated guess since boats prior too these are fine. We still do not know exactly why :(

Brian Degulis
09-24-2008, 09:56 PM
Well, before I painted the boat, after all the sanding, I wiped the surface with acetone before the primer to remove any oil, wax, sweat, dirt.. Waited for the primer to dry, sanded that with 320, and applied the paint. So Hard for me to imagine this happening because of contamination.

"moisture in the substrate"? IS that moisture in fiberglass?? If that is the case, shouldn't I be seeing fiberglass blisters?

No not necassarily fiberglass absorbs moisture then releases it if it gets heated up. Do you notice this problem more in areas with greater sun exposure or areas that were painted with darker colors?

I'm not saying I know for a fact that's it moisture but Brightside is a simple one part paint. I really doubt that the problem is in the paint. If it were a 2 part high tech urethane I would suspect the paint more.

Brian

akintosyali
09-25-2008, 01:22 AM
Brian,
I will check tomorrow if the parts under shadow has less bubbles or not.. But if that was the case, why didn't they bubble up last summer - when it was actually hotter? Also, If that is the case, shouldn't the instructions require a higher surface temp for application?

doc g
09-25-2008, 01:09 PM
I've done some painting . Looks like some kind of surface contaminant. If you didn't wipe it down really good with solvent that could happen . Silicone or wax maybe??? I did a toe rail a few years back that did the same thing and it was due to the owner using a silicone based waterproofer on the canvas handrail covers which of course when they got wet with water dripped on the toe rail....................Pat

dastahl
09-25-2008, 01:24 PM
I've watched a lot of paint dry and do not remember ever seeing htis kind of a failure 18 month into the paint job. I agree a paint rep from Interlux is in order here.
You did say 2 coats of primer. Do you remember how long you cured the coats?

Skooch
Worton Creek MD

akintosyali
09-25-2008, 03:18 PM
the primer was left to cure for minimum 24 hours. I do not remember exactly how long, since I was keeping an eye on the surface temp. It might have been a day or two days...


Any surface contamination would have shown up before 16 months. I do not buy that theory...

Brian Degulis
09-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Brian,
I will check tomorrow if the parts under shadow has less bubbles or not.. But if that was the case, why didn't they bubble up last summer - when it was actually hotter? Also, If that is the case, shouldn't the instructions require a higher surface temp for application?

I don't know why it happened when it did and not sooner. The instructions call for a dry substrate regardless of the surface temperature. I just don't think it's a paint problem I base that on my own experience. I've been building boats for 26 years and have never seen defective one part alkyd paint.With the 2 part urethanes and epoxies I have seen defect but it's very very rare. International is a good company and I'm sure they will send a rep if you ask them. You can probably get some free paint out of it and maybe some insight as to what happened. Did this paint fail everywhere you used it or is it only some areas?

I should qualify what I said about never seeing defective one part paint. I have seen bad paint contaminated or with un disolved solids in it. But I've never seen paint that looks right smells right and goes on right fail without some other explanation.

Brian

Timm
09-26-2008, 12:04 PM
I work part time for West Marine and have heard this complaint from time to time. The typical causes have turned out to be customers have not prepared the surface properly, mixed (thinned) the paint properly or applied the paint too late in the day which prevented sufficient time for the paint to flash which allowed moisture (evening dew) to affect the surface.

Keep in mind that after 18 months, there is expected normal wear and tear on the surface of that paint. Some of its protection has been worn away. The reason for the delay in them appearing is all of the right conditions for that to occur may have not happened until recently. The normal wear and tear reducing the effective protection of the paint, humidty, heat, exposure to washing, spray from cruising, etc. or just the right combination of all of them may have caused the trapped gases or contamination to finally "stand proud".

To try and help the original poster of this thread, I spoke with the the factory representative for Interlux who has agreed to help get to the botton of your problem or get you to one of the Interlux engineers.

His name is Stan Susman and can be reached at: stanpfa@pacbell.net

He said to email him with any questions, photos as neccesary and he'd be happy to help. He's a good guy!