Yacht Dropped in California

[jim rosenthal]

Not unusual. I have a feeling that most people who buy a boat like that never entertained the idea of owning an older, high-quality boat. I think it just doesn't cross their mind. I may have posted before about the CPA that spent quite a bit of time talking with me about what to buy in his FIRST boat- I suggested a used Hatteras 43 or 44 MY- and then went out and bought a NEW fifty-plus foot Carver MY. With Volvo engines, no less.

"But it has a warranty!" he said. Right. No point in arguing. I'm not mean enough to say "ok, when it starts to sink, call the 800 number for warranty service." I don't think it's really going to fall apart, just lose value and show itself as a not-very-well-made boat.

[hwginc]

Thank God it is not a HATT

[Boss Lady]

Not unusual. I have a feeling that most people who buy a boat like that never entertained the idea of owning an older, high-quality boat. I think it just doesn't cross their mind. I may have posted before about the CPA that spent quite a bit of time talking with me about what to buy in his FIRST boat- I suggested a used Hatteras 43 or 44 MY- and then went out and bought a NEW fifty-plus foot Carver MY. With Volvo engines, no less.

"But it has a warranty!" he said. Right. No point in arguing. I'm not mean enough to say "ok, when it starts to sink, call the 800 number for warranty service." I don't think it's really going to fall apart, just lose value and show itself as a not-very-well-made boat.

LOL, it is amazing to watch someone who has never owned a boat go out and buy 35+ boat, and get their information from the "boating" magazines, which are all just mouthpieces for the manufacturers. They think they are buying a new car, so they fall victim to the "warranty", free jet rides, and exclusive club nonsense. The magazines are full of banter about how great it was running across the bay in the latest clorox bottle, and the harshest thing they ever say is something like "the cup holder on the fly bridge should be moved 6 inches and then it would be a perfect boat". What gets me is that the dealers and manufacturers never even tell new boat owners about things like the Power Squadrons, the U.S. Coast Guard, etc. Oh well, I better get off the soap box now.

[egaito]

LOL, it is amazing to watch someone who has never owned a boat go out and buy 35+ boat, and get their information from the "boating" magazines, which are all just mouthpieces for the manufacturers. They think they are buying a new car, so they fall victim to the "warranty", free jet rides, and exclusive club nonsense. The magazines are full of banter about how great it was running across the bay in the latest clorox bottle, and the harshest thing they ever say is something like "the cup holder on the fly bridge should be moved 6 inches and then it would be a perfect boat". What gets me is that the dealers and manufacturers never even tell new boat owners about things like the Power Squadrons, the U.S. Coast Guard, etc. Oh well, I better get off the soap box now.

Be nice now. I agree about the boating mags, but Free jet rides with a 35' boat? I think there's a digit or two missing, or I've looked at the wrong boats!

Not all dealers are alike either. I worked with the local Coast Guard Aux guys last year where I was part-timing and setup a program where everyone that buys a boat gets a coupon for a free 8 hour class. The Aux turns in the coupons to the dealership for payment, so it's not just a 'fuzzy discount". We sent a good number to classes last year, and the dealership is doing it again this year. The local CGA guy is pushing it through the ranks as a model to spread through the greater organization.

As for the exclusive club, I've got a good story.... We had a customer, that owned one of the "exclusive club" boats, guess which one. He was wealthy, but a boater at heart and loved his boat. So he has this boat, a forty-something, shipped to the coast for one of the exclusive parties, at his expense, but the whole time he's there, he's surrounded by sales folks. The only free event of the week found him surrounded by sales folks on both sides, incessantly talking up the "new model" and his "trade-in". He sold the exclusive brand when he got home and bought something he felt was just as nice, but sans the image overhead. His buddy, also a large exclusive brand owner, sold it and bought one of the "new brand" as well when he heard what had happened, so all that fancy marketing net'ed two less high income customers with upgrades in their future.

Maybe it works better on a 26' owner that could be driving someone else's 28 for the same money, but at some point, you have to stop believing your customers are dumb and their checkbooks wide open.

[Boss Lady]

Ed, Keep up the good work. Our society has deteriorated, when I was younger boats and golf were the domain of the well heeled, in both socially graces and economically. Now you have the guys in cut offs and walmart golf clubs who do not get a proper introduction to appreciate the game, the history, and the finer things that used to come with joining a club and learning proper etiquette. No one takes the time to provide them with the education, they just want the revenue and clubs suffer all kinds of idiots as long as they show up and pay the greens fees. I have educated the people I have attracted to the game, it is fun and enjoyable to go play with a group of guys who dress well, know most of the rules, know proper course etiquette, and how to be a gentleman back at the club house. Instead of all the John Daly wannabees, who are rude and ignorant. Boating also suffers the same things, except with boats we have another kind of idiot that is way worse than the poor working stiff who is out to have a good time. We have the Sea Ray crowd and the "marine industry". the marine industry thinks they are the royalty, and that they have the ability to allow others to join the nobility if they just purchase the right boat. They deserve each other. Both of them are rude and ignorant. We just have to suffer the both of them. It is hilarous to watch people who cannot even board their boat without someone making a trip to the hospital! I guess I just expected that when I was old enough and financially able to own a nice boat that the marina would have the same atmosphere I grew up with, but with the mass marketing of cheap boats, you get the masses along with it. However it is nice to know that most Hat owners are still the same and have some class. One more reason I like this forum, great people. I still think that the dealers need to clean up their act and help grow the quality of the boating experience by providing basic education to new owners, and a proper introduction to boat ownership, and light the spark so they will want to learn some seamanship. I will boldly state that the dealers as a whole have created the atmosphere that has led to the debasement and crudeness we find on the waterways today. A perfect example was Angela had to go help a new Sea Ray owner start the engines on their boat. How sad.

[egaito]

Ed, Keep up the good work. Our society has deteriorated, when I was younger boats and golf were the domain of the well heeled, in both socially graces and economically. Now you have the guys in cut offs and walmart golf clubs who do not get a proper introduction to appreciate the game, the history, and the finer things that used to come with joining a club and learning proper etiquette.

I like the golf analogy....when I first started playing, I objected to the dress code and formality imposed by the courses, but only for a short time, as I was interested in understanding the experience, and not just out there to hack up someone's "pretty lawn". As far back as the 80's, I could see the quality of the participants declining. One of my first jobs was at the Pinehurst Country Club. I worked on the member’s side of the club, but was occasionally "loaned" to the resort side, where any fool with money could play, and let me tell you, these guys had money, but about as much class as your average new SR buyer! The difference between the two sides of the club was incredible. They did tip better however ;-)

Boating also suffers the same things, except with boats we have another kind of idiot that is way worse than the poor working stiff who is out to have a good time. We have the Sea Ray crowd and the "marine industry". the marine industry thinks they are the royalty, and that they have the ability to allow others to join the nobility if they just purchase the right boat.

I actually think the industry is courting the same kind of idiot. Think about it, isn't the SR buyer the one that has a full set of Ping clubs in his garage he gets out a few times a year to pretend he's Tiger, wearing a full wardrobe of logo'ed golf shirts, hats, socks, etc?

The industry, particularly SR, is marketing a "Premium Brand", and we know what type of buyers a "Premium Brand" attracts. The buyers buy into the brand to feel good, or more properly, look good. In the case of boating, they have no idea that the premium went out of the brand years ago. SR isn't the only brand either. I can't tell you how many "premium" wake boats get sold each year, based on brand name, to folks who’s kids may never get good enough at it to actually cross the wake on a board!

Autos have been going the same way to a great extent. Not to over-generalize, as yes, there are people out there that still want to drive fine German automobile because they appreciate the feel and build of the car, but most are buying the brand these days, and wouldn't be able to "feel" or appreciate the difference between an M5 and a Z28.

Bikes...same thing. I bought my Harley because of the history, and the way it feels, rides, sounds. I learned to wear leather because it keeps me warm and protects me, not because it looks cool, and also wear it on my Honda (I like smooth, quite, no wind sometimes too!) for the same reasons. I tend to find myself gravitating toward people talking about the ride rather than the crowd discussing their chrome. But I am not in the majority. The brand is marketed to the same people that we're discussing. I remember I was in for service one day, chatting with my sale guy. Two guys walk in, say they want to see a black Road King, "which one is it". Sales guy looks at them kind of funny...shows them the bike. "Cool, our company just gave us each one of these as a bonus" They had never ridden before, and after 5 minutes at the bike, they spent 1/2 hour in the clothing section, picking out their leathers, the one's with all the big orange Harley badging of course!

They deserve each other. Both of them are rude and ignorant. We just have to suffer the both of them. It is hilarous to watch people who cannot even board their boat without someone making a trip to the hospital! I guess I just expected that when I was old enough and financially able to own a nice boat that the marina would have the same atmosphere I grew up with, but with the mass marketing of cheap boats, you get the masses along with it.

It still takes money to play in this sport, but it seems more people without class (or common sense) have it than the 'old days' Maybe this is what people mean when they comment about "New Money" vs "Old Money" people? There used to be fewer windfalls I think, and most people with money were either raised with it, or busted their arse's to make it. 100-200k jobs were rarer, even inflation adjusted, stock options and windfalls were fewer and farther between. People didn't live as "leveraged" as they do today. I was surprised to learn how many people didn't even carry mortgages not so many years ago, and now it seems everyone has at least two!

I think it's somewhat of a testament to an overall decline in society. Sure, there are good folks out there, but do you run into them as often as you used to?

However it is nice to know that most Hat owners are still the same and have some class. One more reason I like this forum, great people.

I've noticed that most of us here do enjoy passions for many of the "the finer things in life", but here, the passions don't seem to be based on the logo, rather the underlying quality or experience. We all seem to have researched, analyzed and "found" the best X (boat, car, bike, plane, etc) for ourselves. We didn't just to buy a logo, or look for the prettiest veneer over particle board. As varied as the demographics and psychographics are here…age, $$$, professions, other interests, we all seem to share some of the same basic “makeup”.

The old phrase regarding Harley's seems to apply here. "If I have to explain it, you just wouldn't get it"

I still think that the dealers need to clean up their act and help grow the quality of the boating experience by providing basic education to new owners and a proper introduction to boat ownership, and light the spark so they will want to learn some seamanship. I will boldly state that the dealers as a whole have created the atmosphere that has led to the debasement and crudeness we find on the waterways today. A perfect example was Angela had to go help a new Sea Ray owner start the engines on their boat. How sad.

Overall I agree, in theory, but take a walk in their shoes. What should a dealer do when a customer with money or credit walks through the door and wants a boat? Send them down the street because they don't deserve to own, or are not qualified to own a boat? Require them to take a class before they can buy one? Lighting the spark is exactly what they do and part of the sales process...we all sell the lifestyle and the experience, and seamanship is part of that, even if the customer has no concept of what that means yet (other than that cool hat the captain gets to wear). I believe in general terms, most suggest taking a course, and provide the CGA brochures, though I admit, we went further than most to present the opportunity and schedule, and remove the cost objection (a whopping $30).

It's easy to lay blame with the dealer, but unfortunately, there aren't many boat dealers in a position to walk away from a sale based on principal. There are exceptions....I do know of one motorcycle dealer that will not sell a bike to someone without a motorcycle license. But that came from a bad experience, a serious injury a block away (first traffic light) from his shop, where a new customer didn't know how to stop the bike, ran the light, and was hit. One of his other guys saw him "practice" in the parking lot, nearly get hit leaving, and followed him out to tell him they would deliver the bike. He was a little too late. He's lost a few sales, but sleeps better at night. He's the exception. It should be the law.

As much as I lean toward less government, and less legislation, I would support licensing of boat operators, as long as it wasn't just a tax, but an educational requirement....much like a pilot's license, though not as intense. I’d like to see driver’s ed come back too. The roads are more crowded with cars going faster today than the used to be. Sending a 16 yr old kid out into traffic with a car (bought based on it's logo) capable of 130mph or more, and no driver’s education is insane, but people do it all the time. My kid will go to a private driving school, when I think she’s ready to drive, but will it protect her from the kid who’s parents don’t think their kid needs them? From personal experience, I can say absolutely not. Again, sadly, I’m in the minority.

OK, time to put the soap box away and try to go generate some revenue!