Cruisair Replacement question

[formosa64]

This is perplexing topic for me. I have 3 cruise air split units in my 1995 48 CPMY. Salon has a Passport II display, another Passport, and another has the original MTC IV. The issue is each one is in a state of failing. The main salon 16K compressor is at the upper amps to start, and there is a slow leak in the evaporator. The other two both have slow leaks in the evaporators. I get away with 3 to 6 months and then need to get them charged again.

The cost to replace having a tech do it seems astronomical. And the self contained units seem like it can be DYI from this point forward, but then you have water lines running through the boat. Is that safe if done proper, and if so what's the maintenance in a high growth area?

My question is to stay with split system, can you buy split units yourself, install them and charge them up? My understanding is you need to evacuate the system - bring down to a negative pressure - then charge the system? Looks like $1000 or so in vacuum, recovery tank, 4 gauge manifold and a charging tank of R-22?

I'm mechanically inclined - just always stayed away from A/C systems. But for the amount of money this is going to cost - I'm willing to spend the time to learn and even take a class It's also a PITA to have the system run low on charge and have to wait for that process - I'd rather become self reliant at least in charging.

Thanks for all the info and perspective as usual.

[Boatsb]

To each their own when it comes to this subject. If you spend the money on a quality replacement and get another 25 years will it make sense? Some say no. I see 30 year old split systems being replaced with 5 year self contained all the time. Its all in how you value the boat.

DIY all too often is do it wrong. I hire people to do work on my boat when it makes sense and I'm in the business.

[Reefgeorge]

The way most split systems work is that the condensing unit comes charged with refrigerant and oil sufficient for a stated length of copper tubing to and from the evaporator. The connections are usually flared. You connect the flare fittings to the condensor, evacuate the lines to the evaporator, release the refrigerant into the system and then hook up a set of gauges and tweak the charge if needed.

If you want to get qualified to do AC work then you take a proctered 608 EPA test to get your cert card, buy a set of equipment (a substantial investment), learn how to braze, and then start reading and/or take some classes at a tech school. You can't buy refrigerant without the card except small 134a cans at the parts store and you need the cert and equipment to be "legal". It's not rocket science but like all trades it takes a while to get good at it. PV=nrT, the ideal gas law. Volume the same, pressure up and it gets hot. Pressure down, volume up and it gets cold. Rinse and repeat. Easy peasy

George

[formosa64]

To each their own when it comes to this subject. If you spend the money on a quality replacement and get another 25 years will it make sense? Some say no. I see 30 year old split systems being replaced with 5 year self contained all the time. Its all in how you value the boat.

DIY all too often is do it wrong. I hire people to do work on my boat when it makes sense and I'm in the business.

Scott. I agree with your point. Last year or so I came to HOF about putting the wedge style scoops on the engine and AC and it was 10 to 0 on going forward with it. On these self contained A/C units I see it's not a slam dunk. I will likely stick with the split systems.

If I try to replace one myself is a matter of if it's in the range of possible. My A/C guy is top and if I did this - he probably wouldn't service it - I wouldn't blame him - so there's that.

I was both proud and disgusted with myself replacing a leaking SW vacuum pump. But I couldn't find anyone who would do the job. "I don't do that" was the response. I know why...forgetaboutit.

[formosa64]

The way most split systems work is that the condensing unit comes charged with refrigerant and oil sufficient for a stated length of copper tubing to and from the evaporator. The connections are usually flared. You connect the flare fittings to the condensor, evacuate the lines to the evaporator, release the refrigerant into the system and then hook up a set of gauges and tweak the charge if needed.

If you want to get qualified to do AC work then you take a proctered 608 EPA test to get your cert card, buy a set of equipment (a substantial investment), learn how to braze, and then start reading and/or take some classes at a tech school. You can't buy refrigerant without the card except small 134a cans at the parts store and you need the cert and equipment to be "legal". It's not rocket science but like all trades it takes a while to get good at it. PV=nrT, the ideal gas law. Volume the same, pressure up and it gets hot. Pressure down, volume up and it gets cold. Rinse and repeat. Easy peasy

George

Great info thanks. I wasn't even thinking about the "epa" legal angle. If I can't get the refrigerant then it's probably a moot point to DYI.

[Pascal]

I don't like self contained ACs but I can see the frustration with the costs and maintenance of the mini splits. Unfortunately, the new ones do not last 25 years... that was true for the old blue Cruisairs, not the new stuff.

The 2003 70 footer I used to run had 6 condensors and over the 9 years I ran the boat all but 2 had to get new compressors, two of them twice. On my own 53 the average life span of the compressors (late 90s Ocean Breeze) were about 6 years

Not much better than the disposable self contained and The cost of a compressor is about the same as a new self contained. But you don't get the noise of the compressors in the living quarters.

As I ve mentioned before, if a entire system is on the brink it is not worth redoing splits. Either you go with self contained (about $10k on a 53) or chillers which are about twice the costs (if DIY). On most boats, running the water lines isn't too hard as distances from the ERs are pretty short and there is a lot more room than it seems. It s not much worst than running water lines anyway

[dottieshusband]

Getting a 608 license is an easy 50 question Government test. Don't let that be a barrier to you. Took an afternoon of studying. I looked at replacing the existing air handler and compressor, controls, etc, but without labor, around 5k, with labor? New self contained units are incredibly small and quiet. I guess that's why most new boats use them. The use the same water lines as your existing systems. I'm not stuck on one brand vs another, but size matters. I replaced a 10k Cruisair R22 split system with a 12k Webasto Self contained system...for 1/4 the cost of updating with a new Cruisair system. After spending the weekend onboard, it was a good choice...but like I said, each to his own.

[rob71]

When my 40+ year old Cruiseairs developed leaks I installed a Webasto 9K in the master beds closet about 5yrs ago. I installed a 16K in the salon where the original air handler resided. Very happy with this setup as a full time live aboard in SW Florida. It was a bonus all the space freed up in the ER !

[BOATER BOB]

I'm running self contained in my 53SF freed up a lot of space.
Now cant wait for someone to marinize the air cool mini splits.
Bob

[dottieshusband]

And we're done. Control fit in the old Honeywell cut out. The black blanking plate was where the blower fan control was. Yep, it's sideways..but it has a remote control..which is nice.