Hatteras for refit

[SKYCHENEY]

I agree. Listen to your father. I own a family business, started in 1946. When I was your age, with a new MBA degree, I had many ideas of how the company could do things better, make more money, expand into other areas, etc. Years later, I have become more like my dad--very cautious, slower to react, weighing every option (which includes the option of doing nothing in many cases).

If your primary business is not restoring boats for a profit, be very careful. You may have nothing to lose personally in this venture, but the livelyhood of 6 other families could be affected by it.

You'll need more than dedication, ability, and enthusiam to convince your dad. You'll need numbers. And if you can realistically estimate your costs and selling price with enough room for error, then maybe dad will say okay.

Good luck. I have owned many boats, but only because I love to be on them and work on them and cruise on them. I can't help you from a business perspective, because I have never been able to make a profit with a boat. That's not my expertise, I guess.

[Maynard Rupp]

My son and I bought a beautiful '86 36C 2 years ago. I am an aircraft mechanic with lots of tools and skills. I have spent the last two years doing lots of work on this "perfect" boat. I am fussy and wont leave a sticky hinge or a seedy piece of teak alone. The boat is now about as good as one can be and it has been a fun project. I just can't imagine trying a major re-build. Just removing every piece of hardware to paint the thing sounds real tough. Then it all needs to be re-beded and mounted. You will still have the squeeky hinges and un-kept teak to deal with.

[gulfstreamyachts]

Fred,

I have been discussing this topic with my dad. And I do respect his insight and knowledge, but I just wanted to get some different perspectives from a variety of sources. Remember, he's never done this before either.


Sky Cheney,

How convenient that I'm fresh out of college myself. And yes I have tons of ideas about how to make the company more profitable. It is also true that I am very eager and looking forward to this project. I showed my dad a 45' Cabo last year (similar story) and it turned out that it would not have been a smart purchase. This is the second one that I've introduced to him and he loves it.
Another thing, you are right, he is more cautious and slower to react. So my question is since I'm doing most all the leg-work on this deal. ie. setting up the bids, booking flight to view plane, what do I need to do to figure out the "numbers" for all of this to show prove it will be a smart venture.

Ray

[jim rosenthal]

Ray,
The problem is all the intangibles and stuff you can't see- that's the problem, it is very hard to quantify all this stuff. You HOPE that the boat just got banged up as you said, but you don't KNOW that. Plus, it is an older boat, so even if it hadn't been in an accident, it would still inevitably require a lot of maintenance, deferred and routine. The one thing I would tell you is that you are going to have a difficult time pinning this down tight enough to guarantee that you don't get some kind of unpleasant surprise in the course of it. I would venture to say that it cannot be pinned down that tight, period.
The one person who knows more about Hatteras restoration than anyone else is Tom Slane. If you want advice from an expert, he is the expert. He's done this more than anyone and knows all the boats. He also makes a lot of nice bits for these boats which improve their looks and performance. The people on this forum know a fair amount, between us, but Tom probably knows more than all of us put together. He does this for a living.

[67hat34c]

One more thought on this matter. I will restate that if you go in on this venture with the idea that you may break even or loose 10% you will be very satisfied, if you go in thinking you will make money you will be very disapointed. You must remember that you are dealing with a specialty market. Most boat buyers today that are going to spend big money are going for the Searays etc. they are big, flashy,comfortable and fast. In their eyes they are getting more for their money. The person who buys an older hatteras is going to make up the minority of the market. We are looking for a solid boat, not that concerned with the glitz and flash of the others. we are not that concerned with economy or speed, we want a boat with balls.

I saw the few photos of the boat, it looks nice with exception of the damage with does not appear from the few photos to be that much. so providing the rest of her is ok and the engines are solid, go for it but do not expect to make a profit, break even or slight loss is good.

[OldHatt45]

As Jim Rosenthal said, "You Can't pin down the exact costs".
He is dead bang right!!!

The closest you can come is to perhaps Start with the Best Surveyor you can find. I'm sure the members on this Forum can suggest a couple of Good Ones.

After getting a Really Good survey of the boat, (and a separate one for the Engines) then you need to go through that list and figure out what the cost of those items is.

Then you need to see what else You might NEED or WANT to do to the boat and figure in those costs as well.

Then add a fudge factor. I'm sure once you have a list of things, the folks here on the forum could help out with some ideas as to what to allow for.

And once you've done that, talk to Tom Slane. He is a GREAT Source for info on the older Hatt's and can tell you things that the Surveys won't. Things to look for, etc... and add those to your list.

Then you'll have some idea as to what the project will cost you.

Oh, I would also categorize you list kinda like what was already said.
Say 3 categories at least:
1. Things that HAVE to be done (to make it Float using the extreme example)
2. Things that Should be done (to make it Go [and be livable])

3. Things to make it Look Good (these are the "I wanta" items)

Total each category up and you can see the "Break Points" where you could conveniently stop and get out of the rest of the project.

OldHatt45

[SeaEric]

As far as the purchase of any boat to "flip" for a profit it concerned: The one guy I know who has been very successful at it has one rule which is- Clean and Sell! That is, he buys a boat, cleans it and resells it for a profit. What he concentrates on is the purchase of a boat at a low price due to a distress situation with the seller, not the boat. Many times there is a perfectly nice, well maintained boat that will sell at a low price due to seller's circumstances. These are the true bargains.

When the boat has the distress instead of the owner, the numbers have to be very attractive, maybe even almost free. Quoting my friend mentioned above: Some boats for free, coming with a cashier's check for $10K may still not be a good value! As many have said here, when you get into rebuilding a boat the numbers can get very crazy. Lots of experience on that here. Many times a distressed/damaged boat was not a very nice boat before the damage.

Another thing to keep in mind is the cost of owning, storing, insuring, and maintaining a "project" until you resell it. This expense must be factored into the deal.

The best scenario for doing a rebuild is on a boat that you want to own, love and use for many years after she is finished to your total liking. Because that, is truly priceless.

[Eufaula]

YOu have to factor in the AGE, year built, buyers look at the age of the boat and walk away if it is up there. I have a 38SF '68 Hatt. to me a very sound boat as I go on replacing, replating, sanding and painting. Presently I am over my selling value of the boat, however, it is for my own use not for profit, makes a big difference. The one boat I profited by is the boat that I lived in as the saying goes, "small enough to trailer or large enough to live on". Because of my love for boats I owned this 38SF I do not live on this one. This boat is solitude and peace when I am aboard and thinking of what I can repair/replace next. I believe all of us HATTs fall in this category. As mentioned somewhere in this tread clean it up and tune it up and sell. But a damaged hull and possibly the shafts and rudders bend and 6-71TI's you will have to spend very little to make a profit. At any rate good luck to you, James.

[SKYCHENEY]

You'll need to have a good idea of what you can sell this boat for. You could look at Yachtworld, etc., but that is just going to give you asking prices and as you know, boats don't sell at that price. I believe most brokers have access to actual selling prices, so if you know a broker, have him check.

Another option could be to find the buyer first. Sell him on what this boat is going to be when you are finished with her and give him the total cost to refurbish, including enough cushion for the unexpected. If you don't have too many unforseen expenses, you make money, if you do, well, you learned alot along the way.

[gulfstreamyachts]

Gary,

If you have time would you mind sharing with us some of the systems and components you replaced or upgraded on your 41?

Ray