Yet another discussion on oil samples (Lock 'n load)

[Dan Mapes]

What I have here, are two jpegs since I could not load the pdfs to the site. One has some historical sample data for the last 4 years and one is of a sample that was taken back in '04. As we can all see it looks like the Iron numbers blipped quite a bit this time.
Exactly why I wonder because the sample was taken in a somewhat different manner. In all of the past samples we took Freedom out and ran her up good. We may have even hit max rpm under load on those runs. This time, we merely took her out to the river and back. If the whole trip lasted a 1/2 hour I am thinking that was it. The RPMs never were attained because we were in a shallow water narrow channel. So I am wondering if the oil was churned up good.
The engines certainly reached full temp. As always I pulled a gallon or two out of each engine prior to the sample. Then I completed the removal and continued on with the change.
So here are the numbers. I recall one thread where we discussed this a bit previously:
http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/sho...ge-inspection&

The net of the oil cooler swap was probably nil although looking at potassium it has gone down. STILL according to detroit (stavely) numbers we are not critical on anything.

Stbd10-04.jpg

Stbd08-12.jpg

[GCSI]

Dan: I've had oil sampling save me (quite literally) in aviation on two occasions. With that in mind, I have a very conservative approach and firmly believe that Oil sampling is dirt cheap compared to possible damage it can predict / prevent. If I were in your position, I would;
- Take sample with engines properly warmed up.
- Take another sample at ten, and twenty hours looking for trend
It sounds like you sample at oil change, with that in mind I would consider the first sample in this series as a control and sample both engines to eliminate some questions concerning testing protocol relative to different sampling technique.
On a more positive note, We've almost dodged hurricane season!!
Brett

[Dan Mapes]

Brett we intend to follow the advice by halving the interval and sample. I am bringing a pail of oil with us as usual.
I have the samples for both engines but have not received the port side back yet because I shipped them separately. The stbd engine is the "problem child" and always has been. Both engines were up and warm, it's just that this time the sample was taken after a much shorter run without the full throttle run and the water was very clam to boot. One other difference is that we normally swap out the oil after returning from the Bahamas and the long trip involved. This time it sat all Summer and then was changed.
So we will see what happens at 60 hours or so in Hope Town.

And don't jinx us!

[rsmith]

Sorry but I'm still waiting for someone to post pictures and copys of the reports showing how they have prevented a catastrphic failure by doing oil analysis.

[GCSI]

Had a main shaft bearing in a TPE-331 near failure, bearing and race severely spalled when removed. Component was in gearbox rather than hot section so engine was making normal power. Would bearing have made another 2200 hrs till overhaul; no way. More likely the debris would have contaminated other items leading to a more costly repair or sudden stop / loss of power.
Bearing is on my desk at office, will send photo on Monday.

[GJH]

Sorry but I'm still waiting for someone to post pictures and copys of the reports showing how they have prevented a catastrphic failure by doing oil analysis.

If analysis is done and tracked regularly, and corrective maintenance done as a result, you shouldn't reach the catastrophic stage. Or certainly will have cut down the odds greatly. Looks like GCSI might have an example of preventing an imminent failure, but I always had the impression you did this to help you avoid 'imminent'.

[Dan Mapes]

This is our intention as well (imminent). If we had pulled apart the motor the first time we saw salts, it would have been day one when we bought the boat. Long story short, the Detroit Shop that did the survey screwed us. I should have done the samples myself.
ANYWAY-
The motors spin up great, no appreciable smoke (in Florida) and pull well. They both have similar oil consumption and using an IR thermometer at speed, show very close numbers all around.
I am thinking we had a leaky head gasket or other issue in that area.

When I last spoke with a reputable shop, they were going to charge us a day's labor to determine the cause which included dropping the oil pan. At that point I balked because I figured they were heading me in the same direction another mechanic was pushing, kits. All or nothing.

So next Spring, given we are more settled in our long term direction now, I may indeed pull the head myself after I drain the AF and pump up the system and listen for leaks. As far as the iron count goes, that's a tough one. As they suggest it could be a turbo, but Iron in a turbo?

[rsmith]

Had a main shaft bearing in a TPE-331 near failure, bearing and race severely spalled when removed. Component was in gearbox rather than hot section so engine was making normal power. Would bearing have made another 2200 hrs till overhaul; no way. More likely the debris would have contaminated other items leading to a more costly repair or sudden stop / loss of power.
Bearing is on my desk at office, will send photo on Monday.

Yeah well everyone knows Garrett's keep screaming till they self destruct. But were talking about slow turning diesels here. Anyway if you know avaiation you'll know the majority of problems are found by inspecting the filter media and not oil anylisis.
Like I said George, if someone had the proof and not just "dock stories" I'd like to see it.

[TopHattandTails]

Reason I do analysis is to demonstrate "responsible maintenance" in case there would ever be an insurance claim. If I were to loose a tranny, engine, genset, I could show the insurance company that I performed regular oil changes by the analysis record. Just another added benefit in addition to reading the levels of the analyses.

[magnawake]

Yeah well everyone knows Garrett's keep screaming till they self destruct. But were talking about slow turning diesels here. Anyway if you know avaiation you'll know the majority of problems are found by inspecting the filter media and not oil anylisis.
Like I said George, if someone had the proof and not just "dock stories" I'd like to see it.

I always thought the same thing. Whats in the filters? Maybe some of the stuff they are checking is not in a solid form, but liquid and pass right through the filters. Like water, engine coolant, etc. I dont know about the iron or aluminium though. Good topic. Always a learning curve for me.